The Roaring Season

Talking to someone this week about this,who said it goes on in all classes out there.

no sutch thing as cheating, there is only getting caught. a nascar expression i think. and one I follow

Well, Nascar would know. It was said years ago that there's enough rejected stuff left over after Nascar tech inspection to build another car. The main thing is, if you cheat and get caught, you've gotta go hands-up and no complaining.
While ever there's racing, there will always be cheating...

928 wrote:no sutch thing as cheating, there is only getting caught. a nascar expression i think. and one I follow

So you cheat.

Funniest story I heard about that "rogue of the rules", Tom Walkinshaw. One of the team drivers brought his Group C Jaguar XJR into the pits at the end of pre race qualifying at Le mans in 1987. Rival teams had been monitoring how many laps the car seemed to be able to do on a (rules controlled) tank of fuel. Before the qualifying session, Tom had told his drivers that when they finished their sessions, that they must press THE button that had appeared, unlabelled, behind the race seat. He didn't tell them what THE button was for.

Tom: "Did you press THE button?"
Driver, getting out of the car: "You mean 'THE' button that you told me about?"
Tom: "Yes, I do mean THAT f****** button, did you press it or not?"
Driver (knowing exactly what Tom meant, and having no idea what THE button did, but winding Tom up anyway: "Yes, Tom, I did press the button, twice to make sure."
Tom: "Twice? Why bloody twice? I said once." Tom presses his head into the car and fiddles about behind the race seat.

What we were told (but we were all slightly worse for wear at the time) was that Tom had fitted a small electric pump and ram that squashed into the bag tank and reduced its apparent volume in case there was a formal objection to the scrutineers about the possible size of the tanks.

All rumour of course....

A quote attributed to Parnelli......
All those behind me are very fast.....all those in front of me are cheating

CUSTAXIE50 wrote:Talking to someone this week about this,who said it goes on in all classes out there.

[color="#0000CD"]Define what you consider cheating, one mans creative engineering or such like can be anothers rule breaker.
I remember when I got involved in building HQ's I sent off a long fax list of questions to the organisations of stuff I was considering, reply came back, No,No,No, fair enough, then ended up @ Manfield for final & stood in the scruitineer shed & watched teardown of top three cars, all three had most of the mods / changes I had sought approval for & passed with flying colours, when I asked the gent who had knocked me back what was going on he looked somewhat uneasy!!!
Similar stuff has dogged the 'old' NZV8's ( 302 Ford & 305 Holdens ), have you read the rules in engine specs, no limit on amount off top of block, no dimension for compression height, no limit to amount machined off intake manifold, & yet get 5 thou oversize on a valve or seat & your out...[/color]

Jac Mac wrote:[color="#0000CD"]Define what you consider cheating, one mans creative engineering or such like can be anothers rule breaker.
I remember when I got involved in building HQ's I sent off a long fax list of questions to the organisations of stuff I was considering, reply came back, No,No,No, fair enough, then ended up @ Manfield for final & stood in the scruitineer shed & watched teardown of top three cars, all three had most of the mods / changes I had sought approval for & passed with flying colours, when I asked the gent who had knocked me back what was going on he looked somewhat uneasy!!!
Similar stuff has dogged the 'old' NZV8's ( 302 Ford & 305 Holdens ), have you read the rules in engine specs, no limit on amount off top of block, no dimension for compression height, no limit to amount machined off intake manifold, & yet get 5 thou oversize on a valve or seat & your out...[/color]

Do you recall the names on the side of the three cars you are talking about.

Biggest problem in the past was who took responsibility- scrutineer before racing, race organizer afterward.
If rules are there, someone must examine and enforce. No friends wanted for this job.
Cant complain on HMC rules- no title at stake , not worthwhile cheating.

CUSTAXIE50 wrote:Do you recall the names on the side of the three cars you are talking about.

[color="#0000CD"]On two of them, yes, but it wouldnt be fair to name two & not the other ( the car I had been involved with was 4th ), my point was that the 'rules' were not being administered in a fair & equal fashion. You still have not defined cheating for me . One of the reasons given for why I ended up as a tech officer for HQ's in the SI for a while was a couple of 'good old boys' felt I was a bit too creative!, funny thing was I was thinking of them in the same way only worser!!
With regard to Johns post, OSCA in its early non-spaceframed formatt had very few if any problems with regard to rules compliance, any who got too far away from the envelope seemed to get brought into line without any great drama, yet there were trophys & series points up for grabs.
If HMC has no title & therefore no need to win, why are so many owners building better motors , modifying suspension etc to try & be more competitive?[/color]

i have never been caught. nuff said

i have never been caught. nuff said
sorry reply to post#4

Jac Mac wrote:[color="#0000CD"]On two of them, yes, but it wouldnt be fair to name two & not the other ( the car I had been involved with was 4th ), my point was that the 'rules' were not being administered in a fair & equal fashion. You still have not defined cheating for me . One of the reasons given for why I ended up as a tech officer for HQ's in the SI for a while was a couple of 'good old boys' felt I was a bit too creative!, funny thing was I was thinking of them in the same way only worser!!
With regard to Johns post, OSCA in its early non-spaceframed formatt had very few if any problems with regard to rules compliance, any who got too far away from the envelope seemed to get brought into line without any great drama, yet there were trophys & series points up for grabs.
If HMC has no title & therefore no need to win, why are so many owners building better motors , modifying suspension etc to try & be more competitive?[/color]

Jack- Because its fun, and we probably couldnt afford to do this when we were younger.

CUSTAXIE50 wrote:Talking to someone this week about this,who said it goes on in all classes out there.

No such thing as cheating;
Can be covered in many ways;

Known as interpretation

Known as 'bending the rules'

known as 'he who bends the most, goes the fastest'

Known as 'I bought it like that'

Known as 'I didn't know that was there'

Known as 'when did that rule change'

This is tongue in cheek

Interesting topic,i always remember the top place getters in the 1967 Wills 6 Hour being stripped down after the event,everyone had a fully port and polished head,the excuse was ,rules said you could balance engine parts and all they did was balance the combustion and exhaust chambers.If they had chucked them out there would have had to have gone down to 4th 5th and 6th place !!!!!

Ross Hollings wrote:Interesting topic,i always remember the top place getters in the 1967 Wills 6 Hour being stripped down after the event,everyone had a fully port and polished head,the excuse was ,rules said you could balance engine parts and all they did was balance the combustion and exhaust chambers.If they had chucked them out there would have had to have gone down to 4th 5th and 6th place !!!!!

Formula ford.

CUSTAXIE50 wrote:Formula ford.

Pretty much all somewhat other than the rules required back in the day. Back to front pistons, some "slightly" oversize engines....

Oldfart wrote:Pretty much all somewhat other than the rules required back in the day. Back to front pistons, some "slightly" oversize engines....

Yes i know of a gent who raced a xu1 and he said he did that with the pistons also.

Cheating is such a vulgar word.....the thing is, someone or ones have to interpate the rules, and sometimes the official black or white colour is simply the wrong shade....lol :-)

Malcolm McLeod wrote:Cheating is such a vulgar word.....the thing is, someone or ones have to interpate the rules, and sometimes the official black or white colour is simply the wrong shade....lol :-)

Is brown the colour.