The Roaring Season

Hi, does anyone know of about these car on trademe, said to be a x shell car, ?http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=613656894. thanks for any info, peter

Unless some one can come up with a log book, its just another old banger.
Roger

Racer Rog wrote:Unless some one can come up with a log book, its just another old banger.
Roger

Roger, that is what worries me with my old banger, lost log book somewhere in relocations, but I have owned for just about 30 years, so a bonus.

You would have to do some serious tracking of owners, and the unfortunate thing is, some Shellsport cars were bastardized and turned into all sorts.

Speaking from personal experience, history of the car can sometimes be found by removing paint......

Rod Grimwood wrote:Roger, that is what worries me with my old banger, lost log book somewhere in relocations, but I have owned for just about 30 years, so a bonus.

You would have to do some serious tracking of owners, and the unfortunate thing is, some Shellsport cars were bastardized and turned into all sorts.

Rod, I had a guy ring me asking me if that was my old ex Shellsport MK1 that I put the Chev in for Sports Sedans. It`s not, and as already mentioned, without any paperwork it`s just another old Escort.

Rod Grimwood wrote:Roger, that is what worries me with my old banger, lost log book somewhere in relocations, but I have owned for just about 30 years, so a bonus.

.

But you have other evidence such as photos taken during the period etc which do assist

Pretty sure the seller has log book and when the car was advertised previously gave a list of previous owners

Advert does say -homologated cage and log book. drop tank , older race seat and race belts.

Yes it does say it comes with a log book, so maybe it is, you would have to check the log book and owners, as it just could be another old banger, again, ie just a club car with no real history and if as Habu says, it was listed before with names of old owners, you would need to contact them for information before putting any money down.
Roger

Racer Rog wrote:if as Habu says, it was listed before with names of old owners, you would need to contact them for information before putting any money down.
Roger

Why? That only matters if you want to purchase a car that was raced in period. The fia appendix K and therefore msnz schedule k don't care if the car is a period car or a fresh build to period rules.

So if someone purchased this and made it a car to run in classics today you have only one option and that is not T&C as the body work is not series production. Aka it has bubble arches which as far as I know where not fitted to a standard series production car/body so will not fit under T&C as worded in manual #35. So you would have to build to schedule k or fia appendix K for a selected period of that make/model which will allow for the period body mods aka works replica bubble flares but the the tighter engine mods, brake and suspension mods and either period rubber or 60 series road tyres apply.

Those are the rules in the manual and what we have to work with.

Habu wrote:Pretty sure the seller has log book and when the car was advertised previously gave a list of previous owners

Here are the previous listings. Not much more info though.
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/SearchResults.aspx?from=advanced&advanced=true&searchstring=Escort+competition¤t=0&cid=0&rptpath=all&sort_order=default&searchregion=100

"Aka it has bubble arches which as far as I know where not fitted to a standard series production car/body so will not fit under T&C as worded in manual #35"

As far as Im aware bubble arches were a factory option available to variants of the production model - does this not apply?

Habu wrote:As far as Im aware bubble arches were a factory option available to variants of the production model - does this not apply?

that is cool a factory option aka added afterwards....but not standard series production. The GT had different front guards with a little flare that was factory fitted and sold to the general public in the numbers required by the fia in the day. But for the bubble flares to be considered standard series production they would have been homologated in group 1 appendix j in period which I have not found to be the case in the very little looking I have done. If others know for sure cool I am incorrect and they are standard series production bodies and therefore can fit under the current T&C rules if made from the same material as the standard series production panels...if steel they have to be steel under T&C.

I think the bubble arches were on the Group 2 Appendix J cars of the day - which allowed for more modification over the standard production cars of Group 1 (rear seats could be removed, bubble flares etc) however these were modifications permitted this does not make them a standard series production. Someone who is more knowledgeable about escorts or has access to a copy of the FIA homologation paper will know the correct answer of the bubble flares and T&C as the rules are today. But for now in my mind they were not standard production body work so don't fit under T&C - that does not mean I don't want to see them out there - just if the letter of the rules is followed there are many cars that currently are classified as T&C when they should be Schedule K.

EDIT: Ok you make me look. I found that on homologation paper 1605 for the RS1600 escort there is an extension #4 that shows the part numbers and images of the Steel bubble flares. Unlike other homologation papers I have seen that show what groups these parts are homologated under I had to find what the papers where grouped under and that is Group 2. So modified standard production....which might still put those out under the way T&C is written as far as body work is concerned.

FYI here is a list of the Homologation number for escorts models as I found on the interwebie
The -number at the end is the year homologated

-EscortMexico_1614-71
-EscortRS1600_1605-70
-EscortRS2000_5566-74
-EscortRS2000_A5035-82
-EscortRS2000AUS_A5036-82
-EscortRS2000_B214-82
-EscortRS2000_B215-82
-EscortRS_650-77
-EscortTwincam_1524-68
-Escort_Sport_5442-72
-Escort_DeLuxe_5214-68
-Escort_1600_Mk2_5586-75
-Escort_940cc_5256-69
-Escort_Super_5213-68

"Ok you make me look. I found that on homologation paper 1605 for the RS1600 escort there is an extension #4 that shows the part numbers and images of the Steel bubble flares. Unlike other homologation papers I have seen that show what groups these parts are homologated under I had to find what the papers where grouped under and that is Group 2. So modified standard production....which might still put those out under the way T&C is written as far as body work is concerned."

Thank you for the effort, and quick reply - much appreciated. Would be interested to see if the flares do qualify for T&C...

Our RS1600 featured in the 1970 AVO Brochure" Day One" having the arches fitted at AVO. Have recently had contact with one of AVOs early employees and this is what I received from him when asking about our car's time at AVO.

"The timing all fits in because that was when we set up the crib for fitting the fender flares (or wheel arch extensions) and I see you have photos of your car being worked on. The quality of the work done there was outstanding(and way in excess of the economic price for fitting.)"

Arches were available from the factory on new cars. Pete Bryan.

escorthvn wrote:Arches were available from the factory on new cars. Pete Bryan.

Cool do we know what models? ie was it only BDA powered cars? or Kent and Pinto Powered also? or Lotus Power etc? And I assume they were Steel as that is what is listed in the FIA papers - Steel. So under T&C glass is out as not the original material - unless it was of cause.

Under T & C it must have interior trim and bumpers, so it can only go under schedule K, what you have to ask yourself, is it worth the money required to get it to a level to race, double any number you think of, and will it be worth it, if it is a old Shell Sport car it will be, if its done to its original configuration, but if it has just been an old club car, its just a schedule K banger, the problem being, it cost the same amount of money to get race ready, but the end is one is worth more in terms of real value.
Roger

hi,thanks for your info, im sure its a shell car,but well used, was looking for a project, maybe never race it,

Then buy it, you may not get another chance .TRS is full of stories of people who thought , didnt and regretted.
No law says you have to race it.

If it was restored as a fully compliant Shellsport race car then there should be no issues with it. However I do notice that it will need quite a bit of work to get into that configuration again, but if it has the history then I guess it is worth it.