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Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Sun Nov 13, 2011 12:03 am
by Ellis
Baskerville Tas Historic Meeting 14-16 Oct 2011....
As promised by the MG Car Club if we got sufficient numbers they would run events for Early Holdens....guess who finnshed on top of the points.
They also ran a memorial event for Holdens to honour the memory of Tassies John Zeigler who passed away recently.
John ran GMH products from Humpies thru Monaro's and XU1's and was still competing in his Camaro until shortly before his death.
An award was presented also for the early Holden best representing the past....2 in one day...can rest easy now.
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2011 11:52 pm
by Steve Holmes
Ellis I love these pics! Thanks heaps for posting them. I like the style of the Humpies you guys run. They appear to be styled more on the Humpies that raced in the later part of the 60s and the early 70s than what ran in the late 50s and early 60s. Have these cars been built to Appendix J regs?
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 11:08 am
by Ellis
Mine is the only one currently in Tas logbooked Nb which is almost exactly app J rules but we are now allowed to overbore and run 6" rims.
One is still logbooked to early / mid 70's rules with 13" wheels .
Some are log booked to Targa class which is a lot more free with disc brakes, red motors or whatever is desired and 4 and 5 speed boxes.
The playing field is far from level but we have some more Nb cars being built. Its not too serious and most people want to run their cars as they did when they were racing in the old days so it depends what period they are trying to emulate.
We just want the cars back out so are not too fussed by an uneven playing field at the moment.
On the big Island there are currently 3 Nb cars running regularly with one other making an appearance now and then at Historic meetings.
Ellis
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 8:20 pm
by Steve Holmes
Thanks Ellis, I was wondering why some of those cars were sitting so low and on small diameter wide wheels, as they did in the late 60s/early 70s. App J and Nb wouldn't normally allow this would they? Aren't the rules for those based on the cars being how they raced up until 1965? Either way, is really nice to see a few freedoms being allowed, as these cars evolved throughout the decade. Which of those pictured above is still log booked from the early 70s? Is it the red one?
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 9:18 pm
by Ellis
Steve
Nb (for Humpies) still have to have 15" wheels, can be 6" wide, same as original stud pattern but allowed to run 13" hubs with adapters plates to get over the old FX,FJ breaking hubs problem.
Most dont comply with Nb rules as they like to build them up as they raced them in period which is understandable...probably means they are ( much ) younger drivers also from a later period but cant help bad luck...lol
The red one is only 3 years old. Its built the same as the one he raced in early 70's. Its disc braked front, CR 3 sp box, 13" wheels but still has the Grey engine...(with one of my spare tubular pushrods loaned to complete his set, and a rear back guard to replace one damaged at previous Baskerville.....lol)
It has a few of his old original bits like wheels and carbs...goes really well. Lives only 4 km from me in Launceston.
The pic below is the old blue logbooked car....... still has the same owner from around 1965....(with some of my spare long wheel studs as he had a problem at Baskerville....If I loan enuff bits may get a few more out on track)
Frank Manley in the pics below raced this car in mid 60's thru to 70's including Longford. He still owns it and brought it out and drove it at this years Longford Revival and Baskerville Historics recently. Frank is 82 years young and is the life of the party. His other claim to fame is the driver (and still the owner) of the Monaro hanging off the Tasman Bridge in Hobart when the bridge was struck and knocked down by the freighter Lake Illawarra .
Franks main problem at Baskerville was a blown headgasket. The scruitineers also discovered his fire extinguisher was just 27 years out of date......just a minor detail for Frank.
Frank pictured with his old helmet and licenses....
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:50 pm
by Steve Holmes
Ellis, this is great! So if the cars aren't Nb compatible, does that limit where the owners can race them? I really like that owners want to run them how they were in the later part of the 60s, and the 70s. This shows the evelution of the model in Aussie racing.
I love the old blue original example. I take it the owner just parked the car in the early 70s and went racing with something else? Incredible that its still as it last raced.
I remember reading about the Monaro and seeing it hanging off the bridge. I think AMC did a small piece on it a few years ago? Was Frank driving it at the time? He sounds like a real character. Is that an FE he races? Do you have any more pics of it?
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 10:52 pm
by Steve Holmes
What I find interesting is that for historic racers today, the FJ is the weapon of choice, but back in the early to mid 60s, the FX seemed to be more popular.
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:11 am
by Ellis
The FX was approx 1cwt lighter (from Memory) than the FJ, less chrome stuff etc so when they were really serious thats what they chose plus the FX's were older so also cheaper in the day. Late FX's had FJ wide rear springs which were the choice.
Franks FE.....
Its been to 2 meetings inc Longford and has yet to complete more than 1 or 2 laps or runs. I think he really enjoys working on it and as I said to someone at Baskerville he would probably be disappointed if it did 4 or 5 laps non stop....lol
Longford 1968....
Longford 2011.....
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 3:39 am
by Steve Holmes
Thats great Ellis. What amazing history! Its really incredible to see cars like this, in original unrestored condition, and with the same owner after all these years. So when you say Franks FE has yet to complete more than 1 or 2 laps, does something break or does he just roll back into the pits?
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:11 am
by Ellis
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:23 am
by Ellis
Steve Holmes wrote:Thats great Ellis. What amazing history! Its really incredible to see cars like this, in original unrestored condition, and with the same owner after all these years. So when you say Franks FE has yet to complete more than 1 or 2 laps, does something break or does he just roll back into the pits?
Something stops it.......it hasnt run properly since he has got it out of mothballs.
Since then a couple of his friends in Hobart have recon his engine and tightenned a few bolts and at last years Longford he was timed at 150kph on flying mile and you couldnt get the smile off his face. He is a real genuine character....
As mentione previously ,at the 2nd Historic meeting at Baskerville when he first attended, the Scruitineers discovered his Fire Extinguisher was a tad out of date.....only by 27 years....nothing worries Frank.
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:34 am
by Steve Holmes
Ellis wrote:As mentione previously ,at the 2nd Historic meeting at Baskerville when he first attended, the Scruitineers discovered his Fire Extinguisher was a tad out of date.....only by 27 years....nothing worries Frank.
Ha ha ha ha ha, thats a great story!
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 12:34 am
by Steve Holmes
Thanks for the new pics Ellis, great to see this thread bumped to the top once more. Looks like you're having fun!
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 2:56 am
by CUSTAXIE50
Ellis wrote:Engine internals...and other weaknesses...
As everyone knows they are prone to breaking crankshafts. Lots of theories exist as to what to do and not to do
and while you may think you are doing the right things they will break whenever they feel like it.
At the 2009 Baskerville Historics Holden Reunion meeting just to prove that nothing changes after 40-45 years of racing
out of around 20 Humpies ....2 blew headgaskets, 1 broke gearbox, 2 broke cranks and 1 rolled.....
Mine didnt fail then...it waited another 15 months till this year and my crank went at Baskerville. Its not too bad , it
lasted 4 1/2 years.
About all that is done to the standard crank is balancing, better rod bolts and main bolts are used along with main bearing cap strengtheners on centre mains. Billet steel cranks are now available but are around $4k so not cheap and not too many are in use.
Lightenned flywheels and larger harmonic balancers are used along with enlarged and baffled sumps. The heads are ported and planed and larger valves are fitted along with tubular pushrods and with a bore out to 3 3/16" most use hi top pistons but some still run flatop.
Camshaft grinds are free and most use a well known Cam grinder in Melbourne...Clives Cams...no substitute for 45 years or so experience. Aluminium or steel timing geras replace the old original fibre versions.
The gearbox remains standard or maybe fit an EH cluster and a few circlips get silver soldered. The ratios in the gearbox are free and some run close ratio boxes which shifts low up and moves 2nd closer to top. A higher ratio diff is usually then required for some circuits.
Differential ratios are free but the original housing must be retained. For Nb regs drum brakes must remain but finned drums are permitted. Wheels for Nb must remain at 15" but are allowed to be 6" in width. The original old hubs were prone to cracking so later model 13" hubs are permitted with adaptors to take them back to suit 15" stud pattern. LSD or lockers are permitted. Not many of the cars running comply to these Nb specs so are logbooked as Targa class and run disc brakes and 13" wheels so are not permitted in Nb. Quite a few run later red motors and 4 speed boxes but the few purists retain Nb specs which almost mirror the old Appendix J rules from 1960.
So you see nothing has changed since the heady days of the 60's... except for one really important improvement...Tyres.
A one piece crank replaces the 2 piece from a few weeks ago....
Did some use Vauxhall Cranks allso.
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 7:09 am
by Ellis
Yes but to fit them requires lots of machining and if you lose a block you have to get it all done again.
I think its only the 59 Crank that can be used.
Billet is the way to go if you need to rev them to 7 K rpm+.
They are about $4k (3 years ago ) plus the machining to fit them...probably 10-12k all up.
The Vaux crank fitted to the Brock car I have heard was in vicinity of 20K.
I'll stick to the original and keep revs below 6k. That broken crank did 4 1/2 years
The replacement is into its second season (touch wood) doing about 6 meetings a year.
I think the clue is to get the flywheel /clutch assemby down to a bare minimum weight and run a good balancer.
Old speedboat racers ran no flywheel at all and revved them to 8k+
I have heard that there is a historic speedway class in NZ that use Grey motors ....be interested to hear from anyone that knows about it
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 9:10 am
by Kiwiboss
Ellis wrote:I have heard that there is a historic speedway class in NZ that use Grey motors ....be interested to hear from anyone that knows about it
Haven't heard of it Ellis but wouldn't be surprised, in the early years of dirt track saloon racing many used FJ Holdens and i'd say back then it would have been the old grey motors, saloon racing on the dirt was a recently new class back then and i can remember Trevor Grey in a very quick FJ at the old Forest Lake Speedway in Hamilton racing door handle to door handle with Ross Decke in a LIP Vauxhall!! im probably talking 1970/71, i was just 11/12 or so at the time, amazing what we can remember when need be!! was great memory's from a long time ago.
I was just 15 with a licence and one of the local hoons around 1975/6 in Tauranga had a hotted up grey motor in some old car like a Austin 7, i always remember him doing burnouts in reverse, he used to rev the shit out of it, LOL
Dale M
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:03 pm
by CUSTAXIE50
Ellis wrote:Yes but to fit them requires lots of machining and if you lose a block you have to get it all done again.
I think its only the 59 Crank that can be used.
Billet is the way to go if you need to rev them to 7 K rpm+.
They are about $4k (3 years ago ) plus the machining to fit them...probably 10-12k all up.
The Vaux crank fitted to the Brock car I have heard was in vicinity of 20K.
I'll stick to the original and keep revs below 6k. That broken crank did 4 1/2 years
The replacement is into its second season (touch wood) doing about 6 meetings a year.
I think the clue is to get the flywheel /clutch assemby down to a bare minimum weight and run a good balancer.
Old speedboat racers ran no flywheel at all and revved them to 8k+
I have heard that there is a historic speedway class in NZ that use Grey motors ....be interested to hear from anyone that knows about it
I was at Harrisville in March this year,and there was an old speedcar there that had a Grey motor running on Methanol.I got talking to the gent who was running this car on this day,his dad runs this car but on this day he was giving the car a run,he said there are three speedcars in nz running a GREY and there is a Historic club in Len Browns little town.
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Thu May 02, 2013 11:35 pm
by Ellis
Thanks for replies Dale and Custaxie.
Which town is Len Browns "little town"
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Fri May 03, 2013 12:52 am
by Oldfart
Re: Early Holden Racing....pre EH
Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2013 12:30 am
by Steve Holmes
Some of my favourites, from the Bruce Wells Collection:
[ATTACH]22099[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]22100[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]22101[/ATTACH]
[ATTACH]22102[/ATTACH]
