Is there a future for Formula Ford?

[rf84]

Sorry Paul but I disagree. We already have far too many classes in NZ (see my Thread "How many classes?") and adding yet another is going to make matters worse. It is highly debatable whether the FF2000 class would be cheaper than FF1600.
Agree with Dale. We need to find out why all the existing FF1600 cars are parked up.

[paul lancaster]

Just a thought man.as commentator at levels, I have slowly seen my favourite class(single seaters), decline in numbers.an explanation is unknown, engines are getting harder to get, but I have one question,w hen is nzff going to take on the zetec engine, as the rest of the world has done, the old Kent 711m plants have served ff well, and I think it's time to move on engine wise, we could run ffs of all ages, new and old, running the same engine, bringing the focus back to the driver, not the 10k Kent engine built by specialist engine builders.just a thought guys, we need to do something.

[driftwood]

The Zetec engine is old hat came into FFord in UK in 93 and went out in 2004? it was unloved and was only used in UK and the Benelux championship ( Belgium and Holland)
The Duratec replaced the Zetec for 3 years then Ford in their effort to promote yet another motor put the eco boost turbo motor into FFord last year
Ford do not offer any deals or prize funds yet dictate what goes on in UK FFord
There is no reason why classic historic FFord cannot keep using the Kent engine but you need to look at the local scene and ask the drivers of modern FFord cars ie 1990 onwards what they want to use Kent or a modern replacement to be the base for a National c/ship then work out a NI and SI series and then something at year end like the Festival where all come together but if you are only getting 5 or 6 drivers wanting to run in a c/ship then you need to find sponsor prize money promotor to gee things along with an end of season prize and test drive in the next rung of ladder formula

The days have gone for you to warrant Driver to Europe but maybe you need to look at something similar

[Russ Noble]

It’s now a manpower and legwork thing.

1.) Someone needs to contact the NI owners and get an undertaking that they would support a NI series.
2.)Then go to the promoters and get venues.
3.)Then go to MSNZ outlining what is proposed and see if they would give naming rights to the NZFF championship as a bonus for a sponsor who would support the NI series.
4.)Then, as the icing on the cake, find a suitably altruistic sponsor, probably someone already involved in motor racing who would be prepared to put up a prize fund to further entice competitors.

But it needs someone to do it. If someone doesn’t step up then nothing will happen and all these cars will continue to lie around unused and the NZFF championship will continue to rely on mainly SI participation.

(Numbers and bolding added to quote for clarity)

Chicken and egg. How do you entice a sponsor with tiny fields? What a sponsor needs for his/her outlay is something in return and that is generally exposure whether in the media or on the track and a grid of five is not going to work.

Glad you think that's the problem Ray!

Since you haven't queried them, do you think achieving the three steps outlined above which precede the sponsorship approach, is relatively doable then?

[Russ Noble]

then work out a NI and SI series and then something at year end like the Festival where all come together

That would be great.

But the problem is that there is currently no series in the NI. Much to the detriment of the National Championship. This is what needs to be addressed for the survival of the FF Championship as a truly National Championship.

[AMCO72]

Nah.........as Custaxie50 says....... if it hasn't got a V8, forget it.............LoL.

[Russ Noble]

Gerald, thanks for such a positive, insightful, and relevant contribution.

[Racer Rog]

The points that you make Russ, are not unreasonable, and make a lot of sense, maybe if Gerald channelled his computer skills more positively we would achieve all that.
Roger

[AMCO72]

I shouldn't have to explain myself, but I will. The little 'LoL' that I put at the end of my 'comment' means..........No everybody on the roaring season knows what it means. Several posters use it regularly, kiwiboss being one. When we see an LoL at the end of a comment he has made we all know exactly where he is coming from......ie, a ' tongue in cheek' throw-away line.
So lighten up fellas, and I will try to improve my computer skills to match those of others..........LoL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crunch]

Not a bad idea, but they are already out there, and I would have thought they clash with TRS, given that they are wings and slicks, and could be faster than TRS.
Roger

I was joking....

[crunch]

...oh; I forgot to put a LOL on the end!

[ERC]

Russ. Just back from a long, often very wet day at HD. Beowulf managed a win the last race of the day for Historics! He's a happy chappy.

No problem with your sequence, but in your situation the four steps may need to be condensed into two!

1) Contact all FF owners not currently running.

2) Ask WHY they are parked.

When and only when you have contacted them will the way ahead become clearer - but yes, someone needs to run with it initially.

One historic FF driver approached me today and said he'd be quite happy if the moderns were running and that obviously, the Historic FF's are divided. I believe I made the right decision this time, based on historical support, however, a grid of just 11 today lost us money, so the jury is out for an invite next year.

[driftwood]

I agree that the best solution is to contact all FFord car owners that have them resting in the garage and ask why they are not running
I can guess at a few answers as
1 No money to race Biz bad /recession etc
2 Got married/ had children
3 motor needs rebuild ( see 1)
4 been there seen it done it but not officially retired from racing/ maybe racing in another class
5 chicken egg i would race but there are no grids
this last reason is the one you are wanting to hear and can work off the rest you cant do much about

once you know who is where and might run then ask what do they wish for
how many events which tracks

Those that are in the reason 1-3 ( maybe 4 too) ask them will they want to race again or sell their cars
Now you are armed with info you can then go see the current racers in modern classic historics and ask what they would like THEN you can go to the organising race clubs and MS NZ and have a meeting to get a series going with promotion find a title sponsor generate publicity
It will not happen in 1x 12 month period it will take 1-2 season to kick start and IF any SI guys will come north across the Cooke straight to bolster some grids that is a start however remember iF the SI boys come north have the courtesy to send some NI boys down south for a meeting

One more comment i have to make is i have just looked through Trade me for FFord cars for sale and prices and your cars are expensive to me i dont know how it equates to kiwi wages lifestyle but i see cars at $60k that even if i work on either the old exchange rate of $3=£1 and the more current $2-£1 the cars are la la money
I have VD2k new motor last year 5 races and its worth around £12k= $25/27k ish
We have VD 90-92 cars for sale £12k ish race ready
My mechanic sold his VD04 car last year for £13500
i have seen some of your classic car prices (73-80 period ) and they are heading towards double UK prices
for you to ship import a car you have say $5k to add to the price

So maybe one problem is the cars are too expensive for new blood to purchase?
PS LOL !! and remember a Kent engine is half a V8 !!

[beowulf]

Russ. Just back from a long, often very wet day at HD. Beowulf managed a win the last race of the day for Historics! He's a happy chappy.

No problem with your sequence, but in your situation the four steps may need to be condensed into two!

1) Contact all FF owners not currently running.

2) Ask WHY they are parked.

When and only when you have contacted them will the way ahead become clearer - but yes, someone needs to run with it initially.

One historic FF driver approached me today and said he'd be quite happy if the moderns were running and that obviously, the Historic FF's are divided. I believe I made the right decision this time, based on historical support, however, a grid of just 11 today lost us money, so the jury is out for an invite next year.

Thanks Ray for a good day, thoroughly enjoyed myself although the numbers were poor.
Several questions. Where were all the Formula Juniors? And like the FFs where are all the sports cars?
Incidentally the "race" I won will go down in the annals of motorsport as one of the great races of all time. Three of us started in pouring rain, even the Pukekos who normally spectate had gone to cover. The leader spun into the kitty litter at the infield hairpin, so the two of us did three laps behind the safety car while he was towed out. Then the "race" resumed and we both cruised around to finish. To a standing ovation from the two spectators brave enough to watch. To add insult to injury the buggers had eaten all the chocolate fish. Congratulations to Craig who finished second, he is new to the sport and learnt a lot about wet weather driving.
We will be holding a signing session at Puke in a couple of weeks time.

[ERC]

I wasn't going to give all the details away Richard but Senna would have been proud of you! Two FJ's entered the meeting, one didn't pay, didn't say he was pulling out, didn't even make it to documenation (but was spotted spectating) - and poor old Walter couldn't get the Elva DKW running properly.

There is a lot of serious head scratching going on at the moment by a lot of people and I for one have a lot to sort out as regards ever promoting a race meeting again and also how to assess true support for the racing from paid up registered members of our own series and others'.

It is not just FF that is suffering at the moment through lack of solid, consistent support.

[Russ Noble]

One more comment i have to make is i have just looked through Trade me for FFord cars for sale and prices and your cars are expensive to me i dont know how it equates to kiwi wages lifestyle but i see cars at $60k that even if i work on either the old exchange rate of $3=£1 and the more current $2-£1 the cars are la la money

Those two cars are both late model Mygales, both championship winners. That is the asking price. They certainly have not sold at that. Both have probably got to be fairly negotiable.....

We have VD 90-92 cars for sale £12k ish race ready

I bought my VD92 this time last year for $18,000. I think that was top dollars for that too. A VD91 has recently sold for $12,000, so prices for these sort of cars not really out of line.

[Russ Noble]

Russ. Just back from a long, often very wet day at HD. Beowulf managed a win the last race of the day for Historics! He's a happy chappy.

No problem with your sequence, but in your situation the four steps may need to be condensed into two!

1) Contact all FF owners not currently running.

2) Ask WHY they are parked.

When and only when you have contacted them will the way ahead become clearer - but yes, someone needs to run with it initially.

One historic FF driver approached me today and said he'd be quite happy if the moderns were running and that obviously, the Historic FF's are divided. I believe I made the right decision this time, based on historical support, however, a grid of just 11 today lost us money, so the jury is out for an invite next year.

I agree with all of that Ray. And I am also conscious of the fact that with, say, twenty guys who give a firm commitment to support a series, you will be lucky if ten actually turn up! Bloody hopeless!

[Russ Noble]

From the “how many classes” thread

I agree.

I asked the following question to no avail in the FF thread.......

"Do any clubs in the NI have clubmans meetings?" These are basically mixed saloons grouped by capacity or lap times, plus a F Libre class which gathers together all singleseaters and sports cars in one group?

Plenty do Russ, i started with Taupo Car Club 20 years ago, they run a clubmans come winter series meetings off season, these are a whole lot of fun with little expense!! im pretty sure Manfeild does as well? these are generally not advertised but details are obtained by belong to that club!! a great way to start into Motorsport. Also back them i use to attend the likes of "Corvette club" and "Ford Muscle Car Club" track days, i believe these still continue, they great for lots of track time!! but at this "Club Level" its a "all in group" so no "fairness" in vehicle performance! I moved on once the excitment at this level waned.

Dale M

Thanks Dale. Then with promoters justifiably running gun shy about small grids, that might be the way forward in the meantime, try and get some of these dormant cars out to club meetings and build from there. Not difficult (in theory at least) to instigate an informal series to take place within the F Libre races over the season.

So maybe it’s not impossible ………?

But there will only be light at the end of the tunnel if someone up there has the willpower and the commitment to make something happen.

That may be the biggest ask……..

What about NZFF Inc? What role do they, or could they, have in all this?

[crunch]

Those two cars are both late model Mygales, both championship winners. That is the asking price. They certainly have not sold at that. Both have probably got to be fairly negotiable.....



I bought my VD92 this time last year for $18,000. I think that was top dollars for that too. A VD91 has recently sold for $12,000, so prices for these sort of cars not really out of line.

Numbers about right. VD's Good value for money. A spectrum for sale in Auckland for $24K

[paul lancaster]

Check out apexspeed.com for cars forsale, ff s 10k with great spares package, ff2000s 5k upwards.it's a prick of a site to get used to, but well worth it