Unknown to me
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:29 am
The Roaring Season
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Front engined single seaters
Page 2 of 2
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:31 am
Mr McK may be able to answer some of them, These postings are mainly to preserve our history and also for the younger ones to see what was.
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:55 am
I should have said one is not a front engined.[/QUOTE]
It's a Cooper T41 I think
It's a Cooper T41 I think
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:27 am
markec wrote:[ATTACH=CONFIG]4996[/ATTACH]
passing resemblance to this grandson
Car 6 in Post #21
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:27 am
Car #6 would be Lex Davison's HWM-Jaguar at the 1954 first-ever NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore (actually described in the programme as the NZ Motor Cup Grand Prix). Note the P.Coutts & Co Ltd Commer van at the right.
Davison won the 1954 Australian GP in it on a distinctly rough road circuit at Southport Qld. Car 5 in the background would be Horace Gould's Cooper-Bristol.
Stu
Davison won the 1954 Australian GP in it on a distinctly rough road circuit at Southport Qld. Car 5 in the background would be Horace Gould's Cooper-Bristol.
Stu
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:07 am
post 17 ( i stand by to be corrected) Stan Jones 250F and Brabhams Cooper
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:24 pm
stubuchanan wrote: 1954 first-ever NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore Stu
Come on Stu, we are not still denying that the first NZ Grand Prix was at Ohakea are we?
But you did say the "first-ever NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore", I guess that could be interpreted differently.
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:32 pm
Post #16 Doug Haigh's Citroen Special,
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:21 am
Post #20 is I think the Holroyd /Ross/ Bunce / A50 Special. This could be a very early photo when it was Ford 10 powered.
Ardun Special
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:37 am
Brian Tracey demonstrating the Ardun Special at Epsom at the 1958 pre Ardmore NZIGP meeting.
Doug Haigh
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:39 am
Citroen Special
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:47 am
[quote="Kwaussie"]Post #20 is I think the Holroyd /Ross/ Bunce / A50 Special. This could be a very early photo when it was Ford 10 powered.[/QUOTE
Yep...
Yep...
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:35 pm
Nice thread to put up when I'm away from my computer
Some confirmations and corrections (by post no.)
2. Whitehead's Ferrari from the 1954 GP
3. Parnell's 1957 Supersqualo (with Roycroft's 375 in the background)
4. Roycroft's 375
5. RA Vanguard
10. Brabham's Cooper-Bristol, 1954 GP
12. Glen Murray Express P3 Alfa
13. Zambucka's Maserati 8CM - could be 1954 GP or 1955 (he had the same number both years)
15. Stuart Special
16. Ex-Haigh Citroen Special - Lou Kingsley's Holden in the background suggests this was when the Citroen was in the Blackburns' ownership
17. Ken Wharton's T41 Cooper-Climax (as driven by Alex Stringer) with Bib Stillwell's 250F behind - 1957 GP
18. Fred Tuck's Mk1 Cooper-Bristol - 1954 GP
20. I tend to agree the Holroyd Ford 10 special before it became the A50 Special
21. Agree on Davison's HWM-Jag, though I don't recall seeing photos of it with that nose before
Some confirmations and corrections (by post no.)
2. Whitehead's Ferrari from the 1954 GP
3. Parnell's 1957 Supersqualo (with Roycroft's 375 in the background)
4. Roycroft's 375
5. RA Vanguard
10. Brabham's Cooper-Bristol, 1954 GP
12. Glen Murray Express P3 Alfa
13. Zambucka's Maserati 8CM - could be 1954 GP or 1955 (he had the same number both years)
15. Stuart Special
16. Ex-Haigh Citroen Special - Lou Kingsley's Holden in the background suggests this was when the Citroen was in the Blackburns' ownership
17. Ken Wharton's T41 Cooper-Climax (as driven by Alex Stringer) with Bib Stillwell's 250F behind - 1957 GP
18. Fred Tuck's Mk1 Cooper-Bristol - 1954 GP
20. I tend to agree the Holroyd Ford 10 special before it became the A50 Special
21. Agree on Davison's HWM-Jag, though I don't recall seeing photos of it with that nose before
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:43 pm
Kwaussie wrote:Post #20 is I think the Holroyd /Ross/ Bunce / A50 Special. This could be a very early photo when it was Ford 10 powered.
If you go post # 19 I will agree, my post 20 shows a car with wires, and what seems to be the dashpots of 3 carbs on the RH side of the engine. I have checked with the current "custodian" of the A50 and he tells me it never had wires.Not being picky, but you know that this is likely to be quoted as evidence some time in the future!
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:09 am
Oldfart wrote:Come on Stu, we are not still denying that the first NZ Grand Prix was at Ohakea are we?
But you did say the "first-ever NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore", I guess that could be interpreted differently.
Does a handicap race really qualify as a Grand Prix (apart from one French GP and a number of Oz GPs)?
Ardmore GP organisers were not sure about their numbers either, here are title pages from 1955 and 1956 GP programmes.
So, officially, there never was a second NZ International Grand Prix. Try explaining that to your grandchildren!
Stu
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:58 am
First New Zealand Grand Prix - Ohakea 1950
First NZ International GP - Ardmore 1955 (as the programme says)
Third NZ Grand Prix - Ardmore 1956 (as the programme says)
The trouble only really starts the following year, when the 1957 programme refers to the "fourth NZ International GP", when - strictly speaking - it was the third. In other words it was at that stage that the organisers retro-applied the "NZ International GP" title to the 1954 Ardmore race
First NZ International GP - Ardmore 1955 (as the programme says)
Third NZ Grand Prix - Ardmore 1956 (as the programme says)
The trouble only really starts the following year, when the 1957 programme refers to the "fourth NZ International GP", when - strictly speaking - it was the third. In other words it was at that stage that the organisers retro-applied the "NZ International GP" title to the 1954 Ardmore race
Re: Front engined single seaters
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:45 pm
Thanks David, total agreement.
Grand Prix only means "Big Prize" and historically there are a good number of times in Europe where there were a number of Grands Prix in the same country in the same year. A Grand Prix of the country could also be held. eg GP de France, as well as a Grand Prix at Angloueme, Albi, Caen, Dieppe etc etc.
As far as I know (and am likely to be wrong) there was no requirement in the "good old days" for a GP to be authorised by any hierarchy, so I guess that the Ohakea event may fit that. However we like it or don't, it was the 1st Grand Prix so named in NZ, and as David says the Ardmore event was named as the 1st INTERNATIONAL.
Grand Prix only means "Big Prize" and historically there are a good number of times in Europe where there were a number of Grands Prix in the same country in the same year. A Grand Prix of the country could also be held. eg GP de France, as well as a Grand Prix at Angloueme, Albi, Caen, Dieppe etc etc.
As far as I know (and am likely to be wrong) there was no requirement in the "good old days" for a GP to be authorised by any hierarchy, so I guess that the Ohakea event may fit that. However we like it or don't, it was the 1st Grand Prix so named in NZ, and as David says the Ardmore event was named as the 1st INTERNATIONAL.