NEW CLASS / SERIES; Historic Sports Sedans. formation meeting.20/04/13 ACC

[Steve Holmes]

What a fantastic list!!!! A decent grid of these cars would be a real spectator attraction and could well attract more spectator interest than the F5000s! I say that not to run down F5000's, far from it, but from a casual watcher's point of view, the sheer variety of the machinery, in size and shape, has real appeal.

One or two of those cars are now worth a shed load of money so you'd really want due respect shown, which is why this would have to be a gentlemanly series - another choccy fish group.

I agree 100% Ray, Historic Sports Sedans would provide a great variety of cars of all shapes and sizes. And furthermore, many people will remember the cars themselves and will enjoy seeing them out running again.

[Steve Holmes]

dont know about the PDL 2 or custaxie 2, dont get me wrong its great to see them out there on the track but see its that word again ,period cars only as they raced all those years back

I thought PDL II was pretty original? Its had a couple of rebuilds, and I know they've had a new rollcage fitted for safety reasons, but overall a good portion of the original car it still there. It even still wears its original BBS wheels.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks guys for your offers.
These are the cars I have come up with so far.
George Sheweiry ex Richards Boss Mustang
Graeme Addis contacted Valiant Charger
Barry Algie contacted Holden Manaro
John Learmonth contacted Algie Monza
Craig Stacey contacted Nazer Victor
Paul McCarthy contacted Zakspeed Escort replica
Bob Homewood contacted Escort
Bruce Manon declined Escort Turbo
Roger Townsend contacted Cologne Capri
John McCechnie contacted Bunce Monaro
Shane Windelburn contacted Pontiac
Warrick Grey Viva
Gordon Burr Algie Alfetta/Cologne Capri
Wayne Huxford Capri chev
Graham Barnes ex Bullivant Capri chev
ex Brennan Escort chev
Tony Boyden ex Coppins Camaro
Tim Buckley ex Gary Sprague XD
Roger Williams ex Thompson Mercedes chev
Dennis Running ex Wills RX8
Rod Grimrod Escort
ex Parkes Marina
ex Ian Night Escort chev
Black mk2 Zakspeed Escort
ex Tulloch Capri Chev
ex Osborne Capri Chev
ex Crowe/Freeth Starlet
ex Lancaster Victor
ex Mossman Viva chev
ex Mossman Consul
Green mk1 2dr Cortina 351
ex Jones Commodore
ex Harrington Torana chev
ex Leckie Capri chev
ex Leckie/Benbrook Lancer
ex Findlay Datsun sss
Fiat 850 V8
ex Lathrope Escort
ex Rutherford RX2

Then any of the earlier Allcomer/ BNSW cars would have qualified to run in sports sedans
Craig Stacey ex Fahey Anglia
Bruce Thompson ex Coppins Firebird
Tony Antunovich ex Marwood

Awesome! Add to that list the Alec Dickie/Gary Jenkins Chevy Victor, Kevin Ryan/Avon Hyde etc Chevy Capri, Jac Mac/Rod McElrea V8 MkIV Cortina, Jac Mac MkII Cortina V8, Don Grindley RX7 Buick, etc.

There were actually two Oldsmobile Starlets built by Trevor Crowe. The first one went to Jackson French and was later upgraded with the same flare kit as the second car. The second car was sold to Rodger Freeth and also had its body work changed. Both cars still exist.

Some of the cars you listed no longer exist, such as the Leckie Chevy Capri, Halliday/Osborne etc Capri, Lancaster Victor, Mossman Viva, Hyde/Jones etc Commodore, Harrington Torana, Clyde Collins MkIII Cortina, Clyde Collins XW Falcon. However, my understanding is the Hallidays are building a replica of their old Capri, and Clyde Collins and his son are building a replica of Clyde's V8 Cortina.

[kiwi285]

Awesome! Add to that list the Alec Dickie/Gary Jenkins Chevy Victor, Kevin Ryan/Avon Hyde etc Chevy Capri, Jac Mac/Rod McElrea V8 MkIV Cortina, Jac Mac MkII Cortina V8, Don Grindley RX7 Buick, etc.

There were actually two Oldsmobile Starlets built by Trevor Crowe. The first one went to Jackson French and was later upgraded with the same flare kit as the second car. The second car was sold to Rodger Freeth and also had its body work changed. Both cars still exist.

Some of the cars you listed no longer exist, such as the Leckie Chevy Capri, Halliday/Osborne etc Capri, Lancaster Victor, Mossman Viva, Hyde/Jones etc Commodore, Harrington Torana, Clyde Collins MkIII Cortina, Clyde Collins XW Falcon. However, my understanding is the Hallidays are building a replica of their old Capri, and Clyde Collins and his son are building a replica of Clyde's V8 Cortina.

What a mouthwatering prospect a grid full of those cars would provide. Hurry up George - we can't wait.
I believe that Ralph Mossman has an Oldsmobile Cutlass - would that fit in this class ?

[John McKechnie]

Lot of variation in tyre types there.

[CUSTAXIE50]

I thought PDL II was pretty original? Its had a couple of rebuilds, and I know they've had a new rollcage fitted for safety reasons, but overall a good portion of the original car it still there. It even still wears its original BBS wheels.

The thing with the PDL 2 is they used some parts from a road car would that be right,my view is that it does not have a road going car floor to it.I do understand that there may be a number of cars that will need to update the rollcage etc

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, PDL II was basically built to IMSA specs in 1976. Remember, Red Dawson and Allan Moffat had already raced IMSA DeKon Monza's in NZ a year earlier, and Art McKee had another IMSA Monza on the way from the US, and all these cars utilised a full tube-frame, so the PDL team could see this was where the technology was heading, so built the PDL II to similar specs.

[CUSTAXIE50]

Yep, PDL II was basically built to IMSA specs in 1976. Remember, Red Dawson and Allan Moffat had already raced IMSA DeKon Monza's in NZ a year earlier, and Art McKee had another IMSA Monza on the way from the US, and all these cars utilised a full tube-frame, so the PDL team could see this was where the technology was heading, so built the PDL II to similar specs.

Yes Steve i know all about the cars you have just talked about.The point is they are not the old Sport Sedans that we have come to know,from day one they have always been race cars.My view was George was wanting to start a new class up for sport sedans ,that do not have a full tube frame to them have i got this wrong.

[crunch]

Brent Willis Commodore?

[Steve Holmes]

Yes Steve i know all about the cars you have just talked about.The point is they are not the old Sport Sedans that we have come to know,from day one they have always been race cars.My view was George was wanting to start a new class up for sport sedans ,that do not have a full tube frame to them have i got this wrong.

I've not spoken personally to George about this Norm, so can only go off what he has posted here, but looking at his list of cars, it seems any car that raced in Allcomers, Group 2, Group 5, BNSW, ShellSport, OSCA, and Sports Sedans is being invited to run with him. This would include the early tube-frame cars, which you rightly say are not really based on road vehicles at all, rather they're built from scratch as race cars but with sections of road car body fitted over top. But these cars were legal in NZ, and raced in NZ during the period he has mentioned, so have to assume these cars are included. Its not just the PDL II and DeKon Monzas that were tube-frame cars. There were several NZ built tube-frame Sports Sedans built in the 1980s prior to the arrival in the late '80s of the US built IMSA and Trans-Am tube-frame cars.

[Steve Holmes]

Brent Willis Commodore?

That car seems to have gone AWOL Crunch. I know Brett was on here some months back advertising he'd like to know its whereabouts. To the best of my knowledge it still hasn't surfaced.

[jim short]

Brett Willis,I notice George left out the Jag xjs{a car Muscle car not called as such}my Porsche that ran for 5 years and added some that never ran .The millen jag !!never a Sport Sedan.. Not very hard to go through the Sports Sedan records all the cars were listed and if they ran as a Sport Sedan they are a Sport Sedan,, Now please no more phone calls its now in black and white

Brent Willis Commodore?

[Steve Holmes]

Yep, really good point Jim, your Porsche should definitely be included. It raced for several years in Sports Sedans, all over NZ, and supported the North Island during the North/South Challenge matches. Its definitely a Sports Sedan.

Re the Jag XJS, who raced this car? Does anyone have photos of it?

[jim short]

Mike Houragan and Allan Prince I ran against it at least twice

Yep, really good point Jim, your Porsche should definitely be included. It raced for several years in Sports Sedans, all over NZ, and supported the North Island during the North/South Challenge matches. Its definitely a Sports Sedan.

Re the Jag XJS, who raced this car? Does anyone have photos of it?

[John McKechnie]

Lawrence Jones ran a white XJS V12 in the Muscle cars in the early 90 to mid 90s- does that answer you Jim?
Mike Hourigan who sold his XJS V12 to Les Parkinson, this ran Wellington race and others at that time.
Understand that Clive Gott ran the ex Millen jag in Sports Sedans

[CUSTAXIE50]

Brett Willis,I notice George left out the Jag xjs{a car Muscle car not called as such}my Porsche that ran for 5 years and added some that never ran .The millen jag !!never a Sport Sedan.. Not very hard to go through the Sports Sedan records all the cars were listed and if they ran as a Sport Sedan they are a Sport Sedan,, Now please no more phone calls its now in black and white

Tell me a little about your car Jim that ran as a Sport Sedan ,maybe a photo and how it turned into a Sport Sedan.

[crunch]

Wasnt the Prince XJS a Group A car with "The Package Express" sponsorship?

[Powder]

Mike Houragan and Allan Prince I ran against it at least twice

I believe this car is still around. It was with Angus Fogg about 18mths ago for some work. It was hoped to be on display at the BMW Festival at Hampton Downs last year, but I didn't see it there.

[jim short]

Over thirty years ago 4 Porsche owners joined together to find a race 911, Mark Scott ex Nicky Lauder mechanic found a special one off 911 built for Mark Grouo..'.ky in Poland a rally car ,it was converted to a circuit car and ran and won some big events in the UK 5th in a 24 hr race in Belguim,ect,.It arrived in NZ 1981?? I was invited to join the group after drinking plenty off wine ,and driving all over the North Shore in their latest 911 turbo, 928 ect to sweeten me up {what a joke},Ray Baker even brought a new reel mower and a couple cycles for his kids{Dean Am. Cup} and sister, to help me raise my share The car was so quick the other Porsche owners were not happy to run against it ,was strange the Jag club that the Porsche club had little time for were only to happy to have it run. At this time Sports Sedans were scratching to find eneough cars to hold a race and I think it was Paul Burnett {charger} that arranged for an entry,As to the rest get Rod ,Brett,Bob Tony, Ross, Ian, Barry, John,to tell not forgetting Brian for repainting it,as I dont wish to be a smart arse.

[AMCO72]

Indeed Powder, this car is still around. It is with FOGG Motorsport in Auckland having a very extensive, and I have no doubt expensive restoration. The car was in a very poor state when it arrived at Angus' workshop. Over its years of racing it had become very loose and floppy, with lots of English spot welds having broken away. The roll cage was a very basic affair and this has been attended to.

You tend to think, or maybe you don't, that these quality cars were well constructed in the factory, but think again. The sheer weight of all the components puts huge strain on the bodywork.....the front axle assembly weighs about as much as the Mini!!!!!Driven quietly around English roads they may have been alright, but in the rough and tumble of racing they didn't stand up. Of course attempts to lighten things over the years hasn't helped.

I had a look at the body after it had been stripped of all its components, and the number of small pressings that were spotted together to make up the complete shell defies belief. No wonder it fell to pieces!

Currently the car, with a new roll-frame is in Moselle Panel and Paint getting the panel-work done and painted. It will still be white, as it has always been in its racing days, but will be a much tighter and together machine when finished.