The Roaring Season

As great as it all is I understand The Beach Hop has cut back on Mustangs just to many make for boring watching,I guess I am a little one eyed just a little but to say a jag is not a muscle car ,only an old saloon and I understand how it hurts when driving your muscle car real fast and this saloon goes past with a cherry wave,

AMCO72 wrote:Howard, you are right. With all these 'PIRANHA's coming on stream, we will be swamped with them, almost like the E30's. I can see Dales HMC class being able to fill a full grid at the Festival in January, so us 'little' guys will be out in the cold. I think a few fellas out there have done their sums on this one, and decided the old Capri is the way to go in HMC. I would honestly not want to see dozens of them on the track together. That is one of the things that is so good about HMC......the variety of machinery. But isn't that orange car a ripper!!!! AND, if even our 'Great Helmsman', Chairman Holmes can get it wrong,[or was that just a carefully contrived piece of journalism to draw attention to the issue], what hope is there for others who don't read this forum to get all the ideas being knocked about here. What happens Dale, if 40+ cars are entered....dont laugh, it could happen if this momentum carries on. In other words, if people put their money where their mouth is, this is going to be the ALPHA, or should that be ALFA [oldfart] class of the racing at the Festival. Might just have to take up flag marshalling.

I was just posting that pic because Grant was talking about building a replica of the Team Gunston Perana that raced in SA. This car is a good example of a car thats a couple of steps too far for HMC, with those wheel flares. But I'm with you, I think its a great looking car, but it couldn't race in HMC like that.

I guess the way HMC has to be viewed is that every car in the field needs to have an achilles heel, be that its too heavy, too big, or too small, or has medieval suspension. Thats what makes a muscle car a muscle car. It goes like stink in a straight line, but everything else is a little questionable. Thats why the punters love them. In the case of the Perana, its achilles heel is that wide wheels can't be fit within the confines of the guards, so 8" is about the limit. So, while lighter and possibly more nimble, getting power to the ground will be the challenge. Same too with the Chevrolet Firenza Can-Am.

While I agree with everyone that a Perana would make a great HMC car I also think a Rover P6 V8 also fits the spirit of the class especially as it would also suffer from the same problem of limited tyre width (which Gerald, Angus and I need).

For what its worth, given their race history, a Mk2 Jag fits well too although there is no way you could get enough horse power to seriously bother Dale and his mates.

I think I will reserve my judgement on the MkII Jaguar until I have seen, heard, and driven Dave's 'Blue Car' If Dave is saying it is way better than he had hoped, I believe him. He is not the sort of Guy to make idle boasts without backing them up with action, and 400+ hp is getting up there.
I have a solution to the tyre width inequality problem. Howard, you I, Angus and other cars that cant fit BIG rubber under their arches, should be able to run on slicks, which are still not very wide, but might grip a little bit better for a more level playing field. Yes????. I'm serious.......as the tyre thing seems to be one of the big issues in this class. Does Neil Tollich run a P6?....that thing can go.

Another real top secret what about the 1976 ex Tullias E Type that swamped the Camaros thats on the water .roll on next yr.

Howard Wood wrote:While I agree with everyone that a Perana would make a great HMC car I also think a Rover P6 V8 also fits the spirit of the class especially as it would also suffer from the same problem of limited tyre width (which Gerald, Angus and I need).

For what its worth, given their race history, a Mk2 Jag fits well too although there is no way you could get enough horse power to seriously bother Dale and his mates.

Yeah you're right about both cars Howard, but if they were included in that list, do you think anyone would actually build one for HMC?

Howard Wood wrote:Dale,

It is 1 year today since your first post regarding the HMC series (although obvviously a hell of a lot of work had gone on behind the scenes before then). Pretty amazing progress, interest and results in those 12 months, congratulations and thanks.

Now we need someone to take up the challenge for the under 3 litre class.........?

Wow, how about that! I hadn't realised that. Well spotted Howard.

Yeah I agree, it'd be great to see someone step up and take control of the U3 group. There is a lot of potential in that class.

One year on for HMC, thanks for reminding me/us Howard, were did that year go? and weve only had 2 events, seems like we've been racing HMC the whole year, LOL

Look guys, a Jaguar is not out of the question(for HMC), if anyone wants to build one he/her needs to put a proposal to us 3 HMC directors, it would get utmost consideration! i wouldn't be so sure about Rovers though. The Eligability list is for vehicles that automaticly quailify, what we consider Muscle Cars, and covers quite a range, infact covers mostly all vehicles that are already in HMC or been built, it was the oddball vehicles we had issue's with, a 240Z Datsun Sarab chev V8, a Bolwell Nagari is just 2 and there are many others i have since found out, its easier to have a list and control it from there. Also you must understand that any Under 3L T&C cars don't have to apply to HMC rules, my concern is only controlling the over 3L HMC cars. If under 3L cars are allowed more freedoms than the HMC cars, thats fine by me, but would still want to see T&C apply, and Howard, Gerald, we still need to support each other, i hope both you(and others) will be with us at the Ice Breaker in September? Im already fielding enquiry about UL3 cars which im happy to steer in the rite direction until some can take it over.

I know my Mustang, and several other V8's have a upper performance advantage over you guys but as you know there's plenty of others that you two have an advantage over as well, and then if it rains? so to have our group mixed at Classic events is just fantastic for us the racer and the public, lets just keep it that way and see what the future holds. I still look at old Baypark pictures that shows the grids of V8's and small saloons, just like we had at the festival this year.

As for the perception of a grid full of Perana's/Mustangs and others, i wouldn't be so sure Jim/Gerald/Howard, as we know lots of interest but when it comes to fronting up? i've seen it all before. We are still aways from 40 car grids, infact my personal view is that we don't want anymore than 25 to 28 HMC vehicles, still enough to have great racing, anymore just turns into a nightmare, once again i look back to the grids of days gone by, we feilded far more cars at the Festival than back in the day.

I don't believe that next years Denny Hulme will be much different than what we had this year, a few new cars for sure, but it'll be the same old competitors with the couple of newbe's thrown in, moneys still tight for other interested competitiors to come onboard, were still atleast 3 years away from having HMC at a mantainable level. It has taken other groups longer than this.

Dale M

Dale you have taken the fun out of the debate with all your comonsence,you know as a kid I used to poke the dogs next door with a stick

Hi Dale, I admire what you are doing but it is not my thing and I will not be putting my car up for consideration. If it races at all it will be as I built it for T&C. I consider all saloons should be fully trimmed and not to be, is just one step away from the guys who turn left at night. My car is fortunately a road car as well,I would not at this stage, build a car that was'nt, I have been waiting four months for a log book and roll cage certification. If this crap goes on much longer I shall put in the tall gearing and head off to Mt Cook for the weekend. Even allowing for to odd speeding ticket it would be a lot cheaper.
Dave S

[Also you must understand that any Under 3L T&C cars don't have to apply to HMC rules, my concern is only controlling the over 3L HMC cars. If under 3L cars are allowed more freedoms than the HMC cars, thats fine by me, but would still want to see T&C apply, and Howard, Gerald, we still need to support each other, i hope both you(and others) will be with us at the Ice Breaker in September? Im already fielding enquiry about UL3 cars which im happy to steer in the rite direction until some can take it over.

I know my Mustang, and several other V8's have a upper performance advantage over you guys but as you know there's plenty of others that you two have an advantage over as well, and then if it rains? so to have our group mixed at Classic events is just fantastic for us the racer and the public, lets just keep it that way and see what the future holds. I still look at old Baypark pictures that shows the grids of V8's and small saloons, just like we had at the festival this year.

As for the perception of a grid full of Perana's/Mustangs and others, i wouldn't be so sure Jim/Gerald/Howard, as we know lots of interest but when it comes to fronting up? i've seen it all before. We are still aways from 40 car grids, infact my personal view is that we don't want anymore than 25 to 28 HMC vehicles, still enough to have great racing, anymore just turns into a nightmare, once again i look back to the grids of days gone by, we feilded far more cars at the Festival than back in the day.

I don't believe that next years Denny Hulme will be much different than what we had this year, a few new cars for sure, but it'll be the same old competitors with the couple of newbe's thrown in, moneys still tight for other interested competitiors to come onboard, were still atleast 3 years away from having HMC at a mantainable level. It has taken other groups longer than this.

Dale M[/QUOTE]

Don't worry Dale, I'll be there with bells on, can't wait.

The grid numbers back in the day is something we all see through rose tinted glasses, especially compared with the historic stuff today but also the NZ V8's. Ironically its the classes like Formula Ford which in the early '70s had so many entries that qualifying was required at the big meetings that today stuggle with entries.

Dave S, not sure about T & C but a Sched K car like mine has to be fully trimmed.

Howard , Just checked only the carpet from the drivers footwell may be removed.
Dave S.

Mike Rorison's 67 Trans Am Mustang back on 15" wheels and now fitted with a 4 Speed Jerico!! already for a HMC work out. Mike wont be at the Ice Breaker but deffinately Denny Hulme in Jan 2013

Really cool car, good to see some carpet and a matching set of gauges. The one I drove had Stewart Warner dials, still available from XKs Unlimited in California

Nice, period type wheels make it also.

Rod, Dave, yes!! this is the NEW face of New Zealand Historic/Classic Saloon racing under HMC and Mikes Mustang is surely what we want, and more is coming!!! for anyone else viewing these pictures and visiting this forum and wanting more info about HMC and regulations, feel free to contact me.

I currently have a competitors 67 Camaro in my W/shop been converted back to HMC reg's, 15" wheels, etc and will look similar to the above Mustang, just like days gone by!!!

PS: the interest from the South Island has been fantastic.

Dale M

Dale, don't let Cedric know you have a Camaro in your workshop, plead innocent to everything.

Dale, Think you would have seen this little sign on a couple of cars years back. Still got one on front quarter light window of Escort been there for about 25 years. It was also on rear wing but bigger. Found a couple in drawers while searching for old log book. Kennard had these put on some t/shirts of his car that he gave the boys after they did overnighter on his car from Bay Park shunt.

I am surprised that those with smaller cars (ie non-muscle) haven't mentioned that the AES and Arrow Wheels series copes perfectly well with Jaguars and even "Peranas" with flares, as long as they run on road tyres and are internally trimmed.
The AES and Arrow's handicapping may not be perfect (when is it, when so many factors can upset the results, such as the occasional yellow flag?) but it they have a long enough history to have an established structure and bags of variety.
The fact that as established series, they don't get invited to partake in the festivals is up to the festival organisers, but at least AMCO72 would be in the correct class!
Maybe the convenor's reluctance to totally embrace the current T & C rules in their entirety, as they are seen to be flawed, might have something to do with it?

Howard - a max grid of 28 is not on. Look at the economics of running a meeting and then you'll understand why. As a spectator, promoter or flaggie, or even driver, there is nothing worse than small grids.

Rod Grimwood wrote:Dale, Think you would have seen this little sign on a couple of cars years back. Still got one on front quarter light window of Escort been there for about 25 years. It was also on rear wing but bigger. Found a couple in drawers while searching for old log book. Kennard had these put on some t/shirts of his car that he gave the boys after they did overnighter on his car from Bay Park shunt.

Arr yes Rod, the "Fridge Club" how could we forget!!!LOL

Haven't seen Cedee in awhile!!!

Dale M