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Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:09 pm
by Ray Bell
Yes, I thought you might be a South Islander who's found another part of the world to make home...

The Lotus 19 was crashed by the mechanic, Bruce Richardson, at Warwick Farm.

When you mention Benalla, I think you might be referring to Winton, which is near Benalla. It's a little circuit in a paddock which is actually a Common. The circuit I would refer to as Benalla was used just once and I don't think the meeting made it as far as actual racing before police intervened and stopped it all. That was about 1938.

I do like 'investigating' old circuits. As far as I know, and I've tried to find out, I am the only person who's seen every circuit on which the Australian Grand Prix has been held. And because I started driving around them and looking at them so long ago, many I've seen are simply no longer there.

When I did my jaunt around Europe almost three years ago I visited a number of old circuits, so I'll keep posting pics here and see who can pick them. US circuits weren't so numerous, but there were a few apart from Savannah.

And to Ken, the Vanderbilt Cup races were important at Savannah, but the US Grand Prize was held there as well. That would be the title to the races I'd put at the top of the list. There were others, too, I found in googling around. And I also found pictures of convicts working on the roads in preparation for the races, and that some new road-building methods were perfected in the course of their experimentation with making those roads better.

Reading this...

http://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/biblio3/26/FirstUS_GP.pdf

...will fascinate anyone on this forum, I'd reckon. And some pictures are pretty good too.

The one thing lacking about the Savannah circuits (I think there were three versions) is decent published maps. They are just hopeless!

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:00 pm
by khyndart in CA
Thanks Ray for all that information about the Savannah races, it will take a while for me to read it all.
This site is a little easier for me.
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/then_now_1911_vanderbilt_cup_race_course-_waters_street_savannah
1908 Map of the course.
Savannah road racecourse. 1908.jpg


Thanks again for providing another stop on our cross country "Bucket List".

(Ken H)

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:32 pm
by khyndart in CA
Thanks Ray,
That is a good read about the Savannah road races.
I thought you might enjoy this period read from 1908.

https://books.google.com/books?id=NTs-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA307&dq=what+road+race+course+has+straights+four+miles+long+pics&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiD77KkuIzhAhWRG3wKHYBtAKsQuwUINzAC#v=onepage&q=what%20road%20race%20course%20has%20straights%20four%20miles%20long%20pics&f=false

Also this site is easier on an old geezer like me.
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/then_now_1911_vanderbilt_cup_race_course-_waters_street_savannah

A 1908 map of the course.
Savannah road racecourse. 1908.jpg


Thanks for providing another stop to our possible cross- country "Bucket List" trip.

Ken H.

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:49 am
by Ray Bell
Mind you, Ken, it's not all as easy to find as it might be with modern road diversions etc...

But it is very instructive!

And that map is one of the shorter courses, probably the shortest, it doesn't include a loop in the Skidway area (which I neglected to drive as well) nor the bit down to the southern shores.

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:00 pm
by Ray Bell
Perhaps a further clue...

These scenes cover some of the same bit of road:

Image

Image

The passing of time, development, different camera locations all make for some differences, but I'm sure it's the same bit of road.

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:50 pm
by khyndart in CA
Ray,
Was it where they ran the 1906 French Grand Prix in the Le Mans area ?
Course-map 1906.jpg


I enjoy your challenges and if I am wrong at least enjoy this old clip.
[video=youtube;paaY1SGOxzs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paaY1SGOxzs[/video]


Ken
p.s. I note the racers are RH drive but they drive on the right side now in France.
When did it change ?

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:15 pm
by Ray Bell
Not Le Mans...

Right country, right race, wrong year, wrong track.

Weren't Ferrari sports cars all RHD, cars like the P4 etc?

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:04 pm
by khyndart in CA

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:44 pm
by Ray Bell
Not Dieppe...

A little later.

Maybe some trackside scenery will help?

Image

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:03 am
by khyndart in CA
As no one else has attempted, this is my final entry to your question Ray.

Amiens circuit. 1913 French Grand Prix.

Amiens 1913 circuit..jpg


Another good, interesting read here;
https://primotipo.com/tag/1913-french-grand-prix/



(Ken)

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:00 am
by Ray Bell
That's the one, Ken...

With the photos above being from Moreuil and the WW1 war graves (virtually in a creek!) being from about Domart-sur-la-Luce.

Maybe if you got that up on Google Earth you'd see the war cemetery in the low ground and a bigger one just across the road.

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:36 pm
by Ray Bell
Ken is so right here...

There's been over 150 views of this thread in the past couple of days but he's the only one still 'having a go'. Well, maybe this one is easier? Strictly speaking it's four from one circuit and one from a deviation of that circuit.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Lost Tracks - " lost me with the tracks " .. '

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:26 am
by Roger Dowding
" There's been over 150 views of this thread in the past couple of days but he's the only one still 'having a go'. "
never known Ray Bell to have so many posts - he lost me with the tracks.

Don't think there is a plan of this one - Lost as a Track but still there - Muriwai Beach, No Toheroa Season these days.

NSCC #110 Beach races Muriwai B Mclaren C McGregor R Howarth R Watson - M Fistonic archives .jpg


Bruce McLaren Austin 7, Colin McGregor Morris Minor, Ray Howarth Morris Eight and then Ralph Watson in the BSA Special ..
This is lost Cars as well as lost tracks, - the BSA is still around and competes - The Austin Seven - there was replica built for the McLaren Movie then taken apart again !! the two Morris' ??

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:04 am
by Ray Bell
Come on, Roger...

Have a guess at this Yankee track.

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:35 am
by John McKechnie
Roger...Legends of Speed this weekend...do you know the track and how to get there?

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:47 am
by Grant Ellwood
Ray, is the US track Upper Marlboro?

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:58 am
by Ray Bell
No... I didn't realise that Upper Marlboro was a public road circuit.

This one was mentioned as a possible answer to the Savannah pics.

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:39 pm
by khyndart in CA
Ray Bell wrote:Come on, Roger...

Have a guess at this Yankee track.


Roger,
I have learnt a lot with Ray Bell's old track questions as I knew diddly squat about them before this.

As I finally guessed the first two I am not answering this one except to say that near where I lived in Kiwitahi was a road called Milliken's. Now that was the name of of one of the corners on this old Yankee road course.

Go for it Roger !
Ken.

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:14 pm
by Ray Bell
Actually, no...

Milliken's was several states to the East of this one.

And to further help Roger (or Grant... or anyone...), June was seen as a good time at this one.

Re: Old Race Tracks

Posted: Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:10 am
by Roger Dowding
Ray Bell wrote:Actually, no...

Milliken's was several states to the East of this one.

And to further help Roger (or Grant... or anyone...), June was seen as a good time at this one.


June the Lemons Race ?? [ .. oops I meant Le Mans -in Reims France !! ]

I am more familiar with this one ... a bit closer to home - Aotearoa - NZ ..

Dunedin Street Races Circuit #1, 1954 circuit  CCI22122015 (700x455).jpg


The AH 100 is Des Spillane - not as noted on the photo
Dunedin Festival 1984 Healey Chris White CCI09102015_0001 (800x574).jpg


Dunedin Festival 1984 #29 Mini - tail end v2, CCI27102015_0002 (2).jpg