Old Race Tracks

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 1:09 pm

Yes, I thought you might be a South Islander who's found another part of the world to make home...

The Lotus 19 was crashed by the mechanic, Bruce Richardson, at Warwick Farm.

When you mention Benalla, I think you might be referring to Winton, which is near Benalla. It's a little circuit in a paddock which is actually a Common. The circuit I would refer to as Benalla was used just once and I don't think the meeting made it as far as actual racing before police intervened and stopped it all. That was about 1938.

I do like 'investigating' old circuits. As far as I know, and I've tried to find out, I am the only person who's seen every circuit on which the Australian Grand Prix has been held. And because I started driving around them and looking at them so long ago, many I've seen are simply no longer there.

When I did my jaunt around Europe almost three years ago I visited a number of old circuits, so I'll keep posting pics here and see who can pick them. US circuits weren't so numerous, but there were a few apart from Savannah.

And to Ken, the Vanderbilt Cup races were important at Savannah, but the US Grand Prize was held there as well. That would be the title to the races I'd put at the top of the list. There were others, too, I found in googling around. And I also found pictures of convicts working on the roads in preparation for the races, and that some new road-building methods were perfected in the course of their experimentation with making those roads better.

Reading this...

http://porschecarshistory.com/wp-content/old/biblio3/26/FirstUS_GP.pdf

...will fascinate anyone on this forum, I'd reckon. And some pictures are pretty good too.

The one thing lacking about the Savannah circuits (I think there were three versions) is decent published maps. They are just hopeless!

khyndart in CA · Post by **khyndart in CA** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:00 pm

Thanks Ray for all that information about the Savannah races, it will take a while for me to read it all.
This site is a little easier for me.
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/then_now_1911_vanderbilt_cup_race_course-_waters_street_savannah
1908 Map of the course.

Thanks again for providing another stop on our cross country "Bucket List".

(Ken H)

khyndart in CA · Post by **khyndart in CA** » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:32 pm

Thanks Ray,
That is a good read about the Savannah road races.
I thought you might enjoy this period read from 1908.

https://books.google.com/books?id=NTs-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA307&dq=what+road+race+course+has+straights+four+miles+long+pics&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiD77KkuIzhAhWRG3wKHYBtAKsQuwUINzAC#v=onepage&q=what%20road%20race%20course%20has%20straights%20four%20miles%20long%20pics&f=false

Also this site is easier on an old geezer like me.
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/blog/article/then_now_1911_vanderbilt_cup_race_course-_waters_street_savannah

A 1908 map of the course.

Thanks for providing another stop to our possible cross- country "Bucket List" trip.

Ken H.

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:49 am

Mind you, Ken, it's not all as easy to find as it might be with modern road diversions etc...

But it is very instructive!

And that map is one of the shorter courses, probably the shortest, it doesn't include a loop in the Skidway area (which I neglected to drive as well) nor the bit down to the southern shores.

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 12:00 pm

Perhaps a further clue...

These scenes cover some of the same bit of road:

The passing of time, development, different camera locations all make for some differences, but I'm sure it's the same bit of road.

khyndart in CA · Post by **khyndart in CA** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:50 pm

Ray,
Was it where they ran the 1906 French Grand Prix in the Le Mans area ?

I enjoy your challenges and if I am wrong at least enjoy this old clip.
[video=youtube;paaY1SGOxzs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paaY1SGOxzs[/video]

Ken
p.s. I note the racers are RH drive but they drive on the right side now in France.
When did it change ?

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:15 pm

Not Le Mans...

Right country, right race, wrong year, wrong track.

Weren't Ferrari sports cars all RHD, cars like the P4 etc?

khyndart in CA · Post by **khyndart in CA** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:04 pm

How about Dieppe in 1907- 1908. ?

https://www.jagerhobby.com/the-1907-formula-1-grand-prix-a-race-of-extraordinary-gentlemen/

Ken

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:44 pm

Not Dieppe...

A little later.

Maybe some trackside scenery will help?

khyndart in CA · Post by **khyndart in CA** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:03 am

As no one else has attempted, this is my final entry to your question Ray.

Amiens circuit. 1913 French Grand Prix.

Another good, interesting read here;
https://primotipo.com/tag/1913-french-grand-prix/

(Ken)

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:00 am

That's the one, Ken...

With the photos above being from Moreuil and the WW1 war graves (virtually in a creek!) being from about Domart-sur-la-Luce.

Maybe if you got that up on Google Earth you'd see the war cemetery in the low ground and a bigger one just across the road.

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:36 pm

Ken is so right here...

There's been over 150 views of this thread in the past couple of days but he's the only one still 'having a go'. Well, maybe this one is easier? Strictly speaking it's four from one circuit and one from a deviation of that circuit.

Roger Dowding · Post by **Roger Dowding** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:26 am

" There's been over 150 views of this thread in the past couple of days but he's the only one still 'having a go'. "
never known Ray Bell to have so many posts - he lost me with the tracks.

Don't think there is a plan of this one - Lost as a Track but still there - Muriwai Beach, No Toheroa Season these days.

Bruce McLaren Austin 7, Colin McGregor Morris Minor, Ray Howarth Morris Eight and then Ralph Watson in the BSA Special ..
This is lost Cars as well as lost tracks, - the BSA is still around and competes - The Austin Seven - there was replica built for the McLaren Movie then taken apart again !! the two Morris' ??

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:04 am

Come on, Roger...

Have a guess at this Yankee track.

John McKechnie · Post by **John McKechnie** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:35 am

Roger...Legends of Speed this weekend...do you know the track and how to get there?

Grant Ellwood · Post by **Grant Ellwood** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:47 am

Ray, is the US track Upper Marlboro?

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 10:58 am

No... I didn't realise that Upper Marlboro was a public road circuit.

This one was mentioned as a possible answer to the Savannah pics.

khyndart in CA · Post by **khyndart in CA** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:39 pm

Ray Bell wrote:Come on, Roger...

Have a guess at this Yankee track.

Roger,
I have learnt a lot with Ray Bell's old track questions as I knew diddly squat about them before this.

As I finally guessed the first two I am not answering this one except to say that near where I lived in Kiwitahi was a road called Milliken's. Now that was the name of of one of the corners on this old Yankee road course.

Go for it Roger !
Ken.

Ray Bell · Post by **Ray Bell** » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:14 pm

Actually, no...

Milliken's was several states to the East of this one.

And to further help Roger (or Grant... or anyone...), June was seen as a good time at this one.

Roger Dowding · Post by **Roger Dowding** » Sat Mar 23, 2019 5:10 am

Ray Bell wrote:Actually, no...

Milliken's was several states to the East of this one.

And to further help Roger (or Grant... or anyone...), June was seen as a good time at this one.

June the Lemons Race ?? [ .. oops I meant Le Mans -in Reims France !! ]

I am more familiar with this one ... a bit closer to home - Aotearoa - NZ ..

The AH 100 is Des Spillane - not as noted on the photo

The Roaring Season

Old Race Tracks

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Lost Tracks - " lost me with the tracks " .. '

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