New Zealand Historic Muscle Cars Under HRC

[Kiwiboss]

Thanks for the info Steve but that's a bit of a bugger as I always look at the New Zealand and Australian racing history first before proceeding and thought the Gardner Camaro was wedged been an old Ex-US Trans Am car, we know the Moffat 69 Mustang(which raced here) had the wedge nose hence why I done this to my 69 Mustang, its period correct and totally accurate for our New Zealand racing history but will now have to re-evaluate the Camaro wedge. My Camaro is a 68 and not a 67 so if Penske done this to 68 and 69's it could make it possible but not with NZ History, would make it close call and would still luv to do it but need to think on that one.........……..anyway, all interesting info.

Looking great Dale, I'm really enjoying this build.

The Gardner Camaro didn't have the wedged nose. I believe that was an old 1967 Bill Brown car, a very early Trans-Am car before they started wedging the noses.

But the Penske Camaros definitely had it done in 1968 and '69. Here is one of the 1968 Penske Camaros pictured in 1970 with then owner Craig Murray. I believe they took a slice out of the radiator support panel and then tilted all the front sheet metal forward, then repaired the rear section of the front fenders so it didn't show.

You can see in this shot the huge gap at the top rear of the panel where it doesn't meet up. I assume the panel was replaced at some stage but not modified correctly.

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[Spgeti]

It will look cool with the wedged nose.....droop snoop on a Camaro.

[Steve Holmes]

Thanks for the info Steve but that's a bit of a bugger as I always look at the New Zealand and Australian racing history first before proceeding and thought the Gardner Camaro was wedged been an old Ex-US Trans Am car, we know the Moffat 69 Mustang(which raced here) had the wedge nose hence why I done this to my 69 Mustang, its period correct and totally accurate for our New Zealand racing history but will now have to re-evaluate the Camaro wedge. My Camaro is a 68 and not a 67 so if Penske done this to 68 and 69's it could make it possible but not with NZ History, would make it close call and would still luv to do it but need to think on that one.........……..anyway, all interesting info.

The Gardner Camaro wouldn't have had the drooped nose in the Trans-Am when raced by Brown. That was really only something the factory teams did, and it didn't begin until 1968. There was a lot of work involved in doing it, only the big pro teams could do it. Its possible the SCA Freight team could have drooped the nose, but its pretty unlikely. One of the reasons for drooping the nose was to aid top speed, but as the British Saloon Car Championship rules allowed larger engines and more horsepower than the Trans-Am, straight line speed probably wasn't an issue. The factory Trans-Am teams were always looking for any tiny advantage because they all had 5 litre engines and roughly the same horsepower, but that wasn't an issue for the V8 cars in the BSCC.

But you could try asking Rowan Harman though Dale. He owned the car for many years and would know for sure.

Its likely the Rod Coppins '69 Firebird could have had a drooped nose, being a factory Trans-Am car. And Firebirds are pretty similar to Camaros; same body and most panels. The 1968 and '69 racing Firebirds even had Chevy engines!

[spinner32]

Thanks for the info Steve but that's a bit of a bugger as I always look at the New Zealand and Australian racing history first before proceeding and thought the Gardner Camaro was wedged been an old Ex-US Trans Am car, we know the Moffat 69 Mustang(which raced here) had the wedge nose hence why I done this to my 69 Mustang, its period correct and totally accurate for our New Zealand racing history but will now have to re-evaluate the Camaro wedge. My Camaro is a 68 and not a 67 so if Penske done this to 68 and 69's it could make it possible but not with NZ History, would make it close call and would still luv to do it but need to think on that one.........……..anyway, all interesting info.

There was a Camaro that raced in NZ with a wedged nose. When John Osborne raced the ex Spinner Black car, the nose had been wedged. I don't know who did it. John expressed his disappointment that when the car was restored, the front panels were restored to standard. I must admit the front grill area looked much better in John's hands than it does today.

[khyndart in CA]

This is how Spinner Black's Camaros front area looked when he first raced them.

(Ken H photos )

[Kiwiboss]

I just heard back from a USA contact, he said that the front radiator support panel bracket that mounted the radiator support panel to the chassis was most likely cut and raised up, lowering the radiator support panel to make the fenders and nose sit a bit lower, that way he said there was no cutting of the front fenders that I had planned, though you would still have a gap at the rear of the front fender were it meets the cowl panel and door which explains your picture Steve. Looking at my 68 I could easily do this but would still like some evidence that at least one Camaro raced in NZ like this?

Spinner32...…...sounds interested but i'd like to see any evidence of this, what was this Camaros history after spinner Black sold it?

Ken H, thanks for the pics but it doesn't look lower in them, as Steve says it was usually the factory that done this Ex-USA. All interesting info.

Dale M

The Gardner Camaro wouldn't have had the drooped nose in the Trans-Am when raced by Brown. That was really only something the factory teams did, and it didn't begin until 1968. There was a lot of work involved in doing it, only the big pro teams could do it. Its possible the SCA Freight team could have drooped the nose, but its pretty unlikely. One of the reasons for drooping the nose was to aid top speed, but as the British Saloon Car Championship rules allowed larger engines and more horsepower than the Trans-Am, straight line speed probably wasn't an issue. The factory Trans-Am teams were always looking for any tiny advantage because they all had 5 litre engines and roughly the same horsepower, but that wasn't an issue for the V8 cars in the BSCC.

But you could try asking Rowan Harman though Dale. He owned the car for many years and would know for sure.

Its likely the Rod Coppins '69 Firebird could have had a drooped nose, being a factory Trans-Am car. And Firebirds are pretty similar to Camaros; same body and most panels. The 1968 and '69 racing Firebirds even had Chevy engines!

[Steve Holmes]

I just heard back from a USA contact, he said that the front radiator support panel bracket that mounted the radiator support panel to the chassis was most likely cut and raised up, lowering the radiator support panel to make the fenders and nose sit a bit lower, that way he said there was no cutting of the front fenders that I had planned, though you would still have a gap at the rear of the front fender were it meets the cowl panel and door which explains your picture Steve. Looking at my 68 I could easily do this but would still like some evidence that at least one Camaro raced in NZ like this?

Spinner32...…...sounds interested but i'd like to see any evidence of this, what was this Camaros history after spinner Black sold it?

Ken H, thanks for the pics but it doesn't look lower in them, as Steve says it was usually the factory that done this Ex-USA. All interesting info.

Dale M

Thats right Dale. I think it might have been Tom McIntyre who told me how his Penske Camaro was done. No need to go cutting up the fenders. The whole nose including fenders, bonnet, and front valance all tilt down at the front. The only issue is that it creates a small gap at the top rear of the fenders, and the bottom rear of the fenders overlaps the lower bodywork around the doors. That just needs to be trimmed and a small section of metal added at the top to fill the gap. Looks nice when its done and everything looks in proportion.

[Spgeti]

If it was done to the Black/ Coppins Camaro I think if it was done it would of been when the major changes took place with this car when going into Scheduled E and OSCA.

[spinner32]

I just heard back from a USA contact, he said that the front radiator support panel bracket that mounted the radiator support panel to the chassis was most likely cut and raised up, lowering the radiator support panel to make the fenders and nose sit a bit lower, that way he said there was no cutting of the front fenders that I had planned, though you would still have a gap at the rear of the front fender were it meets the cowl panel and door which explains your picture Steve. Looking at my 68 I could easily do this but would still like some evidence that at least one Camaro raced in NZ like this?

Spinner32...…...sounds interested but i'd like to see any evidence of this, what was this Camaros history after spinner Black sold it?

Ken H, thanks for the pics but it doesn't look lower in them, as Steve says it was usually the factory that done this Ex-USA. All interesting info.

Dale M

Dale, I'm sorry I don't know the full story. The Camaro went south to Dunedin from Rod, and and John Osborne purchased it around 1978. John told me that it had been used as the prototype for PDL2, and there are photos around of the car without the front panels fitted, and it certainly had a substantial roll cage at that time. John once demonstrated to me how stiff the car was by lowering one of the axle stands the car was on at that time slightly, and showed me how it rocked corner to corner instead of flexing.
After the Camaro returned to the track, I was talking to John about how it was good to see the car on the track again, and being gruff John, said to the effect "Yeh, but they took the lowered front panels off and fitted standard ones" . I didn't know what he meant at the time, but your conversation now makes sense. Get some photos of the car (look up the OSCA webpage) and compare it to the current front and John's car is certainly a lot lower in the grill area.

[Paul B]

Here is a bit of an interesting story on the Penske Camaro

https://www.caranddriver.com/archives/the-lightweight-camaro-1967-donohue-trans-am-camaro-archived-test-review

Pic's from Hemmings Motor News

I also read in another article regarding the nose lowering, that the front radiator panel was sectioned 1 inch and the inner fenders were wedged back from the radiator panel. So the gap occurred in the rear top of the fender and also the lower back edges of the fenders were trimmed, as Steve explained.

[Kiwiboss]

Levins Graham Bagarie tested his new 69 HMC Mustang on the weekend at Manfeild. He has a few jobs to do to totally comply and he's good to go. Apparently it went real good and was only just off the performance of Kevin Gimbletts 67 Camaro, a pretty good effort outa the box first time.

[Rod Grimwood]

Couple photos of bars as discussed and front of car.

[Kiwiboss]

Had these two pics sent to me today from the Portland Historics at Portland International Raceway, OR

[Roger Dowding]

Wow, I was there in 1988 at the Historics hard to believe 30 years ago !!

[Kiwiboss]

Philip Macey's XC falcon Coupe making progress.....we should see him this season.

[Spgeti]

Philip Macey's XC falcon Coupe making progress.....we should see him this season.

Geez that is nice !

[Steve Holmes]

I agree. Great looking car.

[Paul B]

There were so many of these about in the day, great to see another coming on. Agree with you all, it looks the part for sure, I love just about anything fastback.

[kiwi285]

Philip - that car is really starting to look fantastic. Really looking forward to seeing it in the flesh when you are ready.

[Kiwiboss]

Recent pictures of Philip Maceys XC falcon Coupe, he's on the home straight.