Blast from the Past

Shooting the bull on historic motor racing and motorsport history.
Ray Bell
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by Ray Bell »

But on a much larger PCD...

Just as the Austin 7 had three wheel studs vs the Morris with 6, but with a larger PCD. The greater irony is that the Austins had slots!

I think early Lotus models had the Morris stud pattern, which was the cause of concern at Le Mans with the first 23 back in 1962 when they had 4-stud wheels at one end and 6-stud at the other. The demand to make them the same led to it having 4-stud wheels all round and the French reaction to that was, "If it needed six before, four is not enough!"

So Chapman went home and never went back again.

But I'm not certain it was the Morris PCD. From memory the Lotus was on a 3.5" PCD.

And while comparing Peugeots, the 203, 403, and 404 commercials (utilities and wagons) had 5-stud on the same 5.5" PCD as a number of pre-war US cars, Ford to 1947, F100 etc, Jeeps, some Japanese 4WDs, Imperials and bigger Chryslers and some of the later Chrysler commercials. With hefty 16mm studs on the Pugs IIRC, too. The 504 and 505 wagons, however, came back to to the same 4-stud pattern that the 504 and 504 sedans wore.

Mind you, there's little rhyme or reason to it all. Some Citroen ID/DS models had just one wheel nut while others have five studs, and these early Peugeots didn't seem to rely on bolts to hold the wheels on at all:

Image

Probably their Bugatti parentage... while your 6-stud pattern adorns this 1922 model:

Image
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

This photo reminds of the time in early 1974 and I was working at Continental Imports in San Diego which had the local Ferrari franchise. My VW van wasn't running right (a normal condition ) and the sales manager said " take this home for the evening, take your fiancée to dinner and bring it back in the morning". As I lived near the beach in an apartment I did just that and parked it out on the street as no big deal as it was worth about $ 8000 back then, and returned it safely with no harm done.
These 1967 Ferrari 330 GT 2+2 , 5 speeds now sell in the $ 400,000 USD range or over 555,000 NZD !
(Oh well, my wife to be, enjoyed the dinner and she mistakenly thought she was marrying into money ! )
1967 Ferrari 330 GT 2+2 5 speed.jpg

(Ken Hyndman photo )


(Ken H )
Ray Bell
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by Ray Bell »

I wonder if this is the same car?

Image

That's Peter Mabey, Frank Matich's mechanic, admiring it during their SR3 Can-Am visit, 1967?
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

Although I have never been involved with them, the Sunbeam Alpine must have been quite the sports car in the 1960s and seeing them used in the Dean Lester photos to transport the drivers around before the race must have improved their popularity.
In October 1962 there was a race at the old Riverside course known as the LA Times Grand Prix for Sports Cars.
The talented Rootes Group racing team consisted of 4 Sunbeam Alpines driven by Jack Brabham, Bruce McLaren, Ken Miles and a young Jerry Titus for this 200 mile endurance race which was also the first competitive race for the AC Cobra and the new Stingray Corvette.
Jack Brabham had the franchise to sell Rootes Group and Standard Triumphs.
jack brabham. 1962 riverside..jpg


bruce mclaren. 1962...jpg


Bruce had some trouble getting his Alpine to the LeMans type start.
bruce mclaren. 1962.jpg

(Dave Friedman photos )

(Ken H)
John McKechnie
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by John McKechnie »

Although I have never been involved with them, the Sunbeam Alpine Tiger must have been quite the sports car in the 1960s and seeing them used in the Dean Lester photos to transport the drivers around before the race must have improved their popularity.

Max had one in Get Smart.....surely that must have helped
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Steve Holmes
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by Steve Holmes »

John McKechnie wrote:Although I have never been involved with them, the Sunbeam Alpine Tiger must have been quite the sports car in the 1960s and seeing them used in the Dean Lester photos to transport the drivers around before the race must have improved their popularity.

Max had one in Get Smart.....surely that must have helped


The coolest of them in my opinion was the one built and raced by Doane Spencer. Apparently used to lift its front wheels off the ground on hard acceleration.

p1692366.jpg
Grant Ellwood
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by Grant Ellwood »

IMG_5031.JPG


Just got this one in the shop, hope its one of the four you posted Ken!
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

Oct. 1962.
Check out the parking lot at the Riverside course ! That is when folks went to the racing before TV etc. came along.. Would have been a bit of a hassle if you wanted to leave early !
1962 Riverside parking lot !.JPG


A neat GM promo photo showing the cars going into Turn 6 from the Esses on their final warm up before the race. The arrow points to the new Stingray that Dave MacDonald # 00 was driving that day.
I went around this track in 1987 before it was taken over by developers, driven by BMW driving instructors and it was really a thrill going through these corners.
1962 Riverside. GM promotional photo.JPG


(Ken H )
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

I found this interesting information in the Sunbeam Tiger Club site. http://www.sunbeamtiger.co.uk/development/

Ian Garrad (the son of the then Rootes Competitions Manager) remembers….” Jack Brabham, Bruce McLaren, Ken Miles and others had just driven Alpines in the Endurance 3 Hours invitation race at the ‘Times Grand Prix’ Riverside meeting of October 1962, which also saw the debut of the 260 Cobra. Later that day Jack and I were ‘bench-racing’ when the possibility of stuffing a V8 into an Alpine was broached by Brabham”. Whatever the absolute truth is Sir Jack Brabham’s views moved forward the eventual development of the Sunbeam Tiger.

Ian then turned to Carroll Shelby to help make reality the dream of a Sunbeam sports car with sufficient power to compete with E types, Healeys and Porsches. Garrad believed the answer lay with installing Ford’s 260 cu in (4.2 litre) small block V8 engine. It was compact and had potential for enlargement, and was soon increased to 289 cu in. (4.7).

In March 1963 Shelby was retained as engineering consultant on how best to fit the Ford V8 into the Alpine chassis. The product of Shelby’s commission was delivered to Ryton for Lord Rootes to inspect in July. From his go ahead it took only nine months to bring the code named ‘Sunbeam Thunderbolt’ to the New York Motor Show in April 1964. However, by the show date the ‘Thunderbolt’ had been named the ‘Tiger’ in memory of the 1926 Sunbeam Tiger, a supercharged V12 that set the world’s land speed record of 152.3 mph in 1926 in the hands of H.O.D Seagrave.

Rootes did not have the manufacturing capacity to build the Tiger so Jensen Motors at West Bromwich was engaged to carry out the series production of the Tiger I and II. During its production run, some 6,550 of the 260 cu in MK1 Tiger were produced between 1964 and 1966. Only 536 of the 289 cu in MKII Tigers were made in 1967 and all but 10 were made for export markets. In June 1967, by which time Chrysler had achieved full control of Rootes, Tiger production was ended but not before a paper based attempt to modify the hybrid they inherited by installing one of Chryslers own V8 engines was proved to be impossible! It is unfortunate that a corporate take-over brought about the demise of the Sunbeam Tiger. "
Jack Brabham. Sunbeam Alpine ad..jpg

1962 Sunbeam Alpine ad.

Jack Brabham at work..jpg


Sunbeam Tigerad.jpg

1964 Sunbeam Tiger ad


(Ken H )
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

Back to Riverside. October 1962.
The 3 hour Enduro Race started on the back straight as a LeMans type start where the drivers sprinted across the track to their cars.
The Dave MacDonald Stingray was the first car away.
1962 Riverside. 3 hr Enduro start on back straight..JPG


As the field raced away toward Turn 9 the Sunbeam Alpine # 50 of Ken Miles can be seen at the bottom of the photo.
Sadly in 1966 this is the area where Ken died while testing the Ford prototype LeMans J car.
1962 Riverside. Start..JPG


This is a photo I took from near the overhead bridge area in Oct. 1974 during an International Race of Champions (IROC ) showing AJ Foyt leading Jody Scheckter who is trying to learn how to slipstream in their identical Camaros.
Note the lack of vegetation and Riverside was often too hot for racing before October.
RIVERSIDE_Oct.1974.jpg

(Ken H photo )

Ken Miles drove well in the Sunbeam Alpine # 50 and came in 6th. Jack Brabham lost a fan belt and overheated his Alpine and Bruce McLaren had fuel pump problems all day so it did not go quite as well as expected for the Rootes Group Racing Team.
Jack Brabham drove his Alpine # 4 hard that day until the fan belt broke.

Jack Brabham. Riverside.1962.jpg



Ken Miles is seen here about to lap a Porsche on his way to sixth place. (Dave Friedman photo.)
Ken Miles in Alpine # 50.JPG



(Ken H)
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

Ken Miles at Santa Barbara Races..jpg
[LIST]


I drive by the Santa Barbara Airport each day and pass this spot less than a mile away from work and see some of the same buildings and can imagine how exciting it must have been to see some of the best drivers of the day competing here e.g. Phil Hill, Ken Miles, Carroll Shelby, Steve McQueen etc. etc..
This is a photo of Ken Miles winning his 1962 race in his Sunbeam Alpine # 50 at the Santa Barbara Airport races.


The Santa Barbara Airport Road Races ran from 1953 to 1968.
A 1966 programme cover example.
_Santa_Barbara-1966-09-04.jpg





( Ken H)
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

This may not mean much to you folks in NZ but one of my fellow workmates here at Moss Motors is driving the MG that his grandfather drove back in the 1950s here at the Santa Barbara Airport races and he has some photos to share over the next few days.
This aerial photo shows the course around 1953. The small white square was the local drive-in movie theatre that only recently was removed.
I drive to work along the road on the left and Moss Motors is located less than a mile from the top of the photo.
The airport is still there but everywhere has been developed of course.
Santa Barbara.early photo.jpg


(Ken H....more photos soon.)
SPman
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by SPman »

Sunbeam Alpine - now with 1600cc engine!
An acquaintance of dad's in Albany on the North Shore had an Alpine, which he'd fitted with an MGB motor. Reckoned it went OK in a straight line. That would be 1962. It did, until he bought a new Lotus Elan in 1963. The first time I saw (and drove) the Elan, the tail lights wouldn't work, because he'd put his sheepdog in the boot and the dog had chewed out the wiring! Farmers!
Oldfart
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by Oldfart »

True comment from a guy on the Tiger assembly line! How to tell a real Tiger from a replica/re-engined Alpine.Look for the sledge hammer marks to clear the gearbox. If it's done nicely, it's a replica, if it has the sledge hammer huge dents, it's probably real :)
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

Leif Jacobsen carries on the wonderful tradition of driving a 1934 MG NA that his grandfather drove in California races in the 1950s.
Leif's late father also took some photos from that time at the Santa Barbara Airport races which he has kindly shared.
This is a poor copy of a photo I took of Leif's information board.
DSCN8885.JPG

(KJH photo.)

Sept. 1955. Santa Barbara Airport at Goleta, California.
Lars Jacobsen waiting to go out in his 1936 MG NA. In the background Phil Hill and Richie Ginther can be seen at the left front wheel of a Ferrari Monza.
Santa Barbara.MG Special # 99.jpg


Michael Jacobsen photos.

Santa Barbara.MG Special R 1.png.jpg

An early racer for Ken Miles was this MG Special R1

Santa Barbara.1956 start..jpg

The start of a race in 1956 has Ken Miles on the left in Porsche 550 # 5, Richie Ginther in # 211 and Jean Pierre Kunstle in # 118.

Some of the great cars of that era at Santa Barbara.
Santa Barbara.Kurtis 500.png.jpg

Bill Stroppe's Kurtis 500 with a Mercury "flattie" engine.

Santa Barbara. Frazer Nash.jpg

A LeMans Replica Frazer Nash beside a Maserati A6GCS. (The hangar in the background is still there today.)
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

Phil Hill would often drive up to Santa Barbara from Los Angeles, put a number on the side and compete before driving home again !
Santa Barbara. ex Phil Hill Ferrari.2.6 png.jpg

Phil Hill's Ferrari 2.6 as known at that time, later as a 212 Ferrari.

Santa Barbara.Phil Hill Ferrari.png.jpg

Phil Hill leaning on his Ferrari 2.9 talking to Richie Ginther , Ernie McAfee and others. (Note the quick number application to be easily wiped off for the drive home !) Joe Smith photo.

Ken H
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

Leif Jacobsen carries on as some say, very bravely, with the 1934 MG NA in modern day events.
This car was first sold new to Karl Raetz , Koln, Germany in 1935.
It has a unique front suspension that started with large rubber bands and now uses large bungee cords.
DSCN8884.JPG

(KJH photo )

Leif Jacobsen competing at Laguna Seca at the 2017 Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion.
(Well done mate for keeping it original and still competing.)
Leif Jacobsen..JPG

Sportscardigest.com photo.

(Ken Hyndman )
Bruce302
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by Bruce302 »

Fantastic pics Ken, Thank you.
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

Here is a blast from the past featuring US racing from 1969.
(Ignore the 1968 heading.)
Note the Can Am racing at the 14 minute mark.

[video=youtube_share;GL5657xJgag]https://youtu.be/GL5657xJgag[/video]


(Ken H )
khyndart in CA
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Re: Blast from the Past

Post by khyndart in CA »

I came across this clip of the 1972 Can Am race at Mosport which was the first race for the Porsche 917/10K # 6 car and the McLaren M20s.

IMG_3590.JPG

At Laguna Seca Sept. 30 2018. (John Adams photo..)

[video=youtube;uO-70EQ8mPA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uO-70EQ8mPA[/video]






(More Porsche photos in another upcoming thread. )



(Ken H.)
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