Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Shooting the bull on historic motor racing and motorsport history.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

Thanks Nigel. I didn't go to the Festival Sunday, having been Friday and Saturday (half days).

I'm afraid that a so called 'Premier Event' over two days needs rather more than five race groups and a far better race programme entry list. Terry S grizzles that we don't post car details and in this case, the programme only had the car number, driver's name, car make/model and year (and some of that was incomplete). No colour, no cubic capacity, no driver home town etc. Several duplicate race numbers which works OK with transponders, but trying to work out which driver/car is which will give historian's nightmares.

Unlike Goodwood, demonstration cars are not listed so again, if Tony Quinn actually ran the Simtek F1 car and the Mortimers ran the Surtees, (they weren't run whilst I was there so no idea if they did run), no programme listing for them.

Whilst running an ex Dick Johnson car with #17 might be historically preferable, a small red/yellow/white disc somewhere on the car, or something similar, and a key, would have helped.

1) Legends/Historic Touring Cars - 22 cars. 2 x #21, 3 x #31 - 2 cars with no numbers.

2) Legends Invitation - 24 cars - 2 x #5, 3 x #17, 2 x #87 - 3 cars with no numbers listed.

3) Formula Libre - 29 cars - 2 x #23

4) Historic FF - 16 cars

5) Central Muscle cars - 32 cars.

Long track, small grids = a lot of time staring at empty tarmac. Just 123 cars listed.

My views on small grids is well known but just 5 race groups and 123 listed cars? The only race I actually saw was the first Muscle Car race and they certainly had the good crowd support but I'd be interested to hear other people's views.

Would I have paid a premium price for a ticket? No way. Seeing John Bowe and Jim Richards particularly, driving hard in practice, in iconic cars was a real treat, but if HD wants to make this Festival an annual must see, they are going to have to lift their game a long, long way. Last year was their first, so most were supportive but reserved. Friday, although not a competition day, just practice, there weren't even any programmes available.

Nigel, I think you have made the right choice doing Taupo and John McK will no doubt tell you what HD wanted to get the HSS cars to HD! Look forward to your pics as always.

I still have to finish uploading December, but couldn't resist posting this - on just his second day at the track... Very good to watch into the first hairpin too. Classic case of hard on the accelerator or hard on the brakes. No messing about. Apparently John Bowe really enjoyed the meeting, the facilities, the welcome and so on.

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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by Roger Dowding »

Ray, good pics, saw the " Healey - Corvette " and took a few photos of it [ will put on my Austin - Healey " thread ],plus some of the McLaren in the garage and the details on the sign board, wasn't in the pit area for long as was with John B in the Hulme Block with the end apartment which is right above the start finish line, so lots of pics from there, and it was nearly lunchtime on the Saturday when I ventured into the pit area - Mrs John B had put on a good spread.

"Peter M " from TRS was there too!!, so we chatted about things Motor Racing, and right up Chaindrive's alley, Model of Race Cars, especially McLarens and Kiwi themed cars, and drivers.
Next thing is to download them all.

Impressions of the Festival, I too will be interested.

Later
Ray just realised you were typing as I was, Understand that HD is For Sale again, as Mr Quinn needs a sum of money for personal reasons.

I felt that for my Day would have liked more racing, even though they had Friday's events qualifying the morning on Saturday was still " Q " qualifying so in the end only about 4 races on the day. and I left at 3;30 when the last race was on.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

Aha! Thanks for that snippet Roger! Could be interesting to see what happens now.

* See later post #2007

I think I also chatted to Peter M - if he is a McLaren Trust member who was on the Monaco 2012 trip and red hot model collector.

Now that most of HD's basics are in place, it could be a good buy as there is no doubt that TQ had the cash available to finish off a lot of the vision initially laid down by Tony and Chris. We just don't want any potential buyer to ignore who actually supported the complex from several years before the first day of racing.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by John McKechnie »

Ray...John McK was doing some Bathurst Revival at home today........new seat covers for a HG Monaro GTS 350, same owner since 1973.
In the late 60s , early 70s, He was filling Hot Rod Mag, Auto news with Bathurst Monaro raves under title.-
"Flink thinks that Ford stinks"
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

Just had an email from Mike Sexton. He is selling his immaculate Mk 1 Ford Escort. This is the car that Bruce Manon drove from last to first in what is my favourite YouTube in car clip at the Ganley Festival January 2015.

"The last dyno sheet had 250 bhp at the rear wheels at 7500 rpm. The Dyno used is the one we have always used and we have good calibration against an engine dyno which has shown a pretty constant 22% loss through the drive line…so 250 bhp at the wheels equals 320 bhp at the fly wheel. Torque is 240 ft Lb at 5500rpm with 200 available from 3500…so it pulls really hard and spins to high 8000s with ease."

The car is road registered and has a CoD. Since Mike acquired Formula Juniors, the Escort just doesn't get used, hence the sale. Anyone who knows Mike will be aware that this car has been maintained regardless of expense and anything Bruce Manon looks after is to the highest possible standard.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

Just had an email from Mike Sexton. He is selling his immaculate Mk 1 Ford Escort. This is the car that Bruce Manon drove from last to first in what is my favourite YouTube in car clip January 2015.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J42ayb1Js2A

"The last dyno sheet had 250 bhp at the rear wheels at 7500 rpm. The Dyno used is the one we have always used and we have good calibration against an engine dyno which has shown a pretty constant 22% loss through the drive line…so 250 bhp at the wheels equals 320 bhp at the fly wheel. Torque is 240 ft Lb at 5500rpm with 200 available from 3500…so it pulls really hard and spins to high 8000s with ease."

The car is road registered and has a CoD. Since Mike acquired Formula Juniors, the Escort just doesn't get used, hence the sale. Anyone who knows Mike will be aware that this car has been maintained regardless of expense and anything Bruce Manon looks after is to the highest possible standard.
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If you want to get in touch with Mike or further details, send me a PM. Car is located on the North Shore.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by Kiwiboss »

Just got back home(Sunday)I too had an interesting day as well, quite a few people asked where HMC and HSC were and in fact most thought we were supposed to be apart of the program and stunned to find us not there, I explained that after last years mismanagement, disorganization and been left out of any formal information until a month out, we(like F5000, FJ, HSS, ERC/Arrows) decide it wasn't us anymore..........let alone this years massive proposed entry cost been asking around mid last year, just to find out that the SI Touring car group were subsidized or they wouldn't come..........bizarre.

I got told yesterdays crowd(Saturday) was larger but to be quite honest I thought in reality there was really no one there in proportion today...........a very piss poor crowd considering the advertising and high profile........I can see some marketing people getting hauled over the coals id say....LOL

Still, for me after 7 years of back to back weekends every January plus organizing Australian Trans Am over four times I was more than happy to wander around, chatting and having NO part of any of the organizing or any racing group.........I felt really good and enjoyed my day. Was also great to catch up with Jim Richards, Charlie O'Brien and others too.

Also an interesting note, most I spoke with knew little about the Taupo event too........based on that I'm not expecting it to be a spectator haven...........oh well next week will tell.

PS: didn't know Hampton was for sale again, certainly no talk about it from anyone today!
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

Agree Dale. I can't see the point in promoting an event and not really delivering. Add ERC to the above list who were not really overly happy with 2017. Remember we had a full 46 car grid (with 7 reserves!) in 2015.

Having promoted several events over the years, I'd far rather attract plenty of paying drivers and turn a profit without advertising or relying on spectator income, than paying for advertising and not delivering a good event - and running at a loss. Like it or lump it, the days of guaranteed solid paying spectators and huge crowds are way gone for most meetings. Clashing with other summer events is always on the cards (men's tennis final Saturday).

I know the early Festivals lost a lot of money, but I can't see how this one would have made money either.

Neither Hampton Downs nor Taupo offers decent covered spectator facilities with an escape from the sun or the rain, so better to make access cheap and get the money in from the drivers.

It was pretty warm at the weekend and I was more than happy to leave midday having bagged enough photographs to give me plenty to add to my collection.

Had I been running it, I would have had any grid with less than 30 cars on the National track rather than scattered around the extended track, well away from spectators. A promoted meeting has to put spectator considerations high on the list. A non-paying spectator event or club event, drivers always come first as they are paying. Simple enough I would have thought.

The GT meeting back in October was another fizzer with just 11 cars starting on the Sunday for the feature event. Both events have been propped up by the Central Muscle Cars. That is both car premium events failing to deliver and merely shows that the TACCOC and HRC organising teams outperformed the current full time team - and they both understand what makes a good meeting.

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Looking forward now to a day out at Leadfoot early February.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by John McKechnie »

CMC went to Bathurst last year, so they would be the natural Bathurst Revival class....... along their classic looks,high technology and unlimited horsepower......superspectacular........great troika shot Ray
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by Milan Fistonic »

John McKechnie wrote:Ray...John McK was doing some Bathurst Revival at home today........new seat covers for a HG Monaro GTS 350, same owner since 1973.
In the late 60s , early 70s, He was filling Hot Rod Mag, Auto news with Bathurst Monaro raves under title.-
"Flink thinks that Ford stinks"


Flinko really loves his Holdens so he won't like being reminded about this entry in the 1975 Maramarua Rally.

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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by John McKechnie »

Milan, a most excellent find.
The Flinkmeister also remembers being in front of the Coppins Firebird for 4 laps in a Handicap race in 1973 with the same Escort 1300.
He went to HD on Saturday and caught up with Jim Richards...they worked together at Jerry Claytons till Jim went to McMillan Ford.
We were going through my old mags finding his windup comments.
He has fond memories of his little Ford, no matter how much he thrashed it it wouldnt die.
Family motto..."Think Fink"
btw...talking about Maramarua Rally, would you have the program of the previous year- 1974 ? I had my Mini Cooper S in it
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by Milan Fistonic »

John McKechnie wrote:Milan, a most excellent find.
The Flinkmeister also remembers being in front of the Coppins Firebird for 4 laps in a Handicap race in 1973 with the same Escort 1300.
He went to HD on Saturday and caught up with Jim Richards...they worked together at Jerry Claytons till Jim went to McMillan Ford.
We were going through my old mags finding his windup comments.
He has fond memories of his little Ford, no matter how much he thrashed it it wouldnt die.
Family motto..."Think Fink"
btw...talking about Maramarua Rally, would you have the program of the previous year- 1974 ? I had my Mini Cooper S in it


This is the entry list for the 1974 Maramarua Rally. You are there at number 112 and I'm there co-driving for Mike Boyle in the ex-Peter Levet Hillman Imp at 89.

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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by John McKechnie »

John Hudson #106.,Mark Parson #73, Howard Collier #66, Gary Pedersen #60, Donald Webster #116, Quentin #31, Brian Tasker..........man these are memories of hill climbs, club gymkanas etc
Look at those names, everyone was there that day, and what a wet one...do you remember the big pile up in the mud on the first big right hander?
I was rapt just to finish...and drive home.
Will tell you the story of the bull trying to attack my car at Taupo.
Thanks Milan, heres my smile for the day !!!!!!!!!
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by Peter M »

Have come back from the Bathurst Revival weekend at HD. I strongly feel more emphasis could have been put on the Kiwi drivers who have competed there over the years. On the friday and saturday I was at the McLaren heritage, I helped them get nearly 40 Kiwis who have raced there. The 1st Kiwi who was on the podium was Jim Palmer in 1968 driving a Holden Dealer Racing team HK Monaro Jim and his Aussie co driver were 2nd, the 1st year Holden won the race. We all know about Jim Richards and Rod Coppins brilliant race in 1974 getting 3rd. Only once has an all Kiwi driver combination won the race that was in 1999 when Greg Murphy and Steven Richards did it.
The only Kiwi drivers focused was Jim and Steven Richards and Paul Radisich, there was something missing with Greg Murphy not being there on the weekend ( I heard he had had a mountain bike accident recently and is on crutches )
The historic touring cars were enjoyable racing, the Central muscle cars always put on a good show with a
large no on the grid.
I question them being at an Historic meeting,the HMC would be more at home there.
My thoughts to keep these events thriving the promoters should talk to the fans as well as drivers, there appears to be getting fewer people attending every year.
My suggestions for future themes, Ford is a marque that is long overdue,a single drivers from the 60s and 70s concentrating collectively on Kiwi drivers also saloon car drivers of the same era.
also British cars (BMC ,Jaguar Rootes and Triumph)
It was good chatting to Jim Richards and John Bowe.
The meeting had a few dissapointments but I do not regret going to it , am eager to get to Taupo this weekend.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by Kiwiboss »

The only thing I can think of Ray is that with Mr Quinns vast wealth he doesn't care, its like his own "personal event" his "play toy" and if that's the case he would have considered it perfect...............same with his Hampton 101........infact I'm sure there were more spectators at last years 101(or Hampton 500)? it also seems to me he has some influence over Central Muscle as they seem to be his favored and promoted group, it's almost as if this event was for them? that been said I did immensely enjoy there racing. Been a V8 fan those cars sounded awesome at 9-grand coming up the front straight.........

So, maybe he's making money in other arenas we don't understand, he didn't get wealthy by been stupid, their Saturday night legends dinner was $175 per person and was sold out with over 300 attending(so I got told) and easy calculation, but I'm sure the Aussie legends would have come at some cost?

Maybe this is future of how NZ motorsport will be? get rid of the poor people like myself and only deal with the rich? like I said he's not stupid.

ERC wrote:Agree Dale. I can't see the point in promoting an event and not really delivering. Add ERC to the above list who were not really overly happy with 2017. Remember we had a full 46 car grid (with 7 reserves!) in 2015.

Having promoted several events over the years, I'd far rather attract plenty of paying drivers and turn a profit without advertising or relying on spectator income, than paying for advertising and not delivering a good event - and running at a loss. Like it or lump it, the days of guaranteed solid paying spectators and huge crowds are way gone for most meetings. Clashing with other summer events is always on the cards (men's tennis final Saturday).

I know the early Festivals lost a lot of money, but I can't see how this one would have made money either.

Neither Hampton Downs nor Taupo offers decent covered spectator facilities with an escape from the sun or the rain, so better to make access cheap and get the money in from the drivers.

It was pretty warm at the weekend and I was more than happy to leave midday having bagged enough photographs to give me plenty to add to my collection.

Had I been running it, I would have had any grid with less than 30 cars on the National track rather than scattered around the extended track, well away from spectators. A promoted meeting has to put spectator considerations high on the list. A non-paying spectator event or club event, drivers always come first as they are paying. Simple enough I would have thought.

The GT meeting back in October was another fizzer with just 11 cars starting on the Sunday for the feature event. Both events have been propped up by the Central Muscle Cars. That is both car premium events failing to deliver and merely shows that the TACCOC and HRC organising teams outperformed the current full time team - and they both understand what makes a good meeting.

Looking forward now to a day out at Leadfoot early February.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

To sum up and move on, even with Jim Barclay and his team chasing people from all over the world, dealing with maybe thousands of emails throughout the year, apart from the first (McLaren) meeting, some grids were still too small to be attractive, but at least there were always enough grids to make a viable meeting.

Last year's meeting showed a totally different attitude to competitors that didn't go down well at all and the backlash for 2018 was obvious back then.

TQ made his money by sheer hard work and spotting gaps in the pet food market and it paid off for him. Being a success in any type of business does not automatically mean that success will follow when diversifying.

Tony Roberts and Chris Watson came from different backgrounds from TQ, but have always had a great rapport with the drivers - particularly so in 'our' sector. Both were TACCOC committee members along with the late Geoff Manning and their breakaway to form HRC carried over some similar attitudes towards drivers.

We backed HD from well before day 1 and when we signed up for our apartment, our solicitor asked just one question; "Do you trust these two guys?"

Every regular racer will know that the TACCOC committee developed a lot of expertise from running huge events such as the Wings and Wheels at Whenuapai which attracted a massive field and more to the point, massive crowds. Only the professionally promoted Aussie V8 meetings have got anywhere near those spectator numbers - and all run by what was effectively an amateur team but to a professional standard. Arguably, the wings component probably brought in more spectators that the wheels, but we'll ignore that!

Now we have a world class track and full time professionals but maybe the passion for the actual cars and solid rapport with the weekend drivers is missing - not to mention the spectators? Yes Dale, it is easy to feel that the less well off amateurs are being shoved out but let's not forget that MSNZ have also made it more expensive for the real amateurs, with ever increasing costs. Pukekohe has just jumped on the bandwagon without offering anything more - and in fact, a lot less.

Fingers crossed that someone does a solid debrief and asks relevant questions and that the future is positive. No doubt there hasn't been an announcement regarding 2019 as yet? Or has there? Planning has to start now.

PS: Found this on the internet today:

"It's exceeded my expectations and this weekend has given us confidence to go bigger and better next year," says Quinn. "Bathurst has such a great history and there have been so many New Zealand drivers and cars who've made their mark at Mt Panorama. Then there are countless drivers and cars we can bring over from Australia."

So maybe the track isn't up for sale after all?


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Clark Proctor and Bruce Manon, showing a clean pair of heels to the rest of the grid in the scratch races.
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Mal Clark's well campaigned (and driven) Targa and track Rover P6.
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Adam Jones taking a break from filming the Kenny Smith documentary, enjoying his Mk 1 Escort.
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Barry Hare, another regular Targa competitor, in the Rover Vitesse. Not very keen on the matt black look!
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Robbie Halliday Junior - Cortina GT
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Nigel is 100% correct. Turn 3 was just made for a long lens.

The ERC grids are still both hovering at the viable level, but increasing costs are one of the reasons for competitors not doing all rounds. The problem is that reducing the number of rounds in a season may theoretically also reduce support. Some people do want to race often - and can afford it.

Taupo is always a combined grid (AES plus Arrows) as the track is long enough and with good visibility to see cars approaching from behind, so the speed differential isn't as much of a problem as on a shorter track.

Next batch will "Caffeine and Classics" from Dec 31st.
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

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Fitting the new woodrim wheel to my own car will be the last job. Sunbeam Rapier
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by Roger Dowding »

ERC wrote:Aha! Thanks for that snippet Roger! Could be interesting to see what happens now.

* See later post #2007

I think I also chatted to Peter M - if he is a McLaren Trust member who was on the Monaco 2012 trip and red hot model collector.

Now that most of HD's basics are in place, it could be a good buy as there is no doubt that TQ had the cash available to finish off a lot of the vision initially laid down by Tony and Chris. We just don't want any potential buyer to ignore who actually supported the complex from several years before the first day of racing.


Ray,yes you did chat with Peter M, he mentioned seeing you and yes a Red Hot model collector , mainly McLarens and NZ cars, as in driven by or made by Kiwi's ..
Cheers
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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

Help! Car #6 Formula Libre - ARES Sports car 2013. Can anyone please tell me in what country it was manufactured? Google wasn't much use...

218_0113_275 ARES.JPG


...and can someone please confirm this one? In the programme #84 John Pickford Reynard FF. Not the best of photographs unfortunately. Probably Formula Renault and should have been carrying 841...

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Re: Just A Mix Of Pics - Ray Green Collection

Post by ERC »

PRIME TV - Saturday 9:30pm - Father Brown - "The Laws of Motion" - episode filmed at Shelsey Walsh Hillclimb.
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