Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Shooting the bull on historic motor racing and motorsport history.
khyndart in CA
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by khyndart in CA »

I want to thank Terry S, GD66, Murray etc for bringing all this back about the Formula 2 Ferraris. I have learned so much again from that time when the fields were almost the same as a Formula One race from that era. Ferrari Dino 166 F 2 cars were certainly hard to trace at times and it even had the 1968 NZGP car as chassis # 006 in one publication ! I could only find the first chassis number as the
004 car that was driven by Chris Amon and Tino Brambilla mostly(also a Tasman car). The 006 car was driven by Chris Amon at the 1968 Hockenheim race where Jim Clark died, Jackie Ickx, and later at Monza by a Mario Casoni. The 008 car was best known to us as a Tasman car in Jan 1969 and later sold to Graeme Lawrence, this was also raced by Brambilla and Brian Redman in F 2. Another Tasman car was the 010 that was first raced by Jackie Ickx and then by Derek Bell who joined Chris Amon here in Jan. 1969. The 0012 Ferrari was driven in Europe and South America by Andrea de Adamich, Regazzoni , Derek Bell and Brambillo. The 014 Ferrari was driven in Europe in 1969 by Clay Regazzoni and also Tino Brambillo. ( I think that covers 6 of the 7 F2 Ferraris..perhaps John Surtees drove an earlier one before chassis # 004 )

( October 1969. Bay Park. Graeme Lawrence in his Ferrari Dino chassis # 008. It had been driven on the tracks of Europe by drivers such as Brian Redman,Tino Brambilla and Chris Amon in the Tasman series. Now this beautiful machine was about to enter races here in NZ. )

Graeme Lawrence. Baypark.jpg




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GD66
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by GD66 »

Luckily for us ! Surtees was keen to drive the 246 at Monaco in 1966 and quite fancied his chances around there in the little car, but he was over-ruled and ordered to drive the 312, which retired on lap 16 with transmission trouble : Bandini drove the 246, and finished second behind Stewart's BRM. Possibly this is the missing early chassis number you're alluding to, Ken.
Surtees was none too happy, and this is where the rot really started to set in, part of the cause of his mid-season departure from the team.
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by GD66 »

Brambilla in the 166 in the Temporada F2 series of 1968. This could be chassis 014 that started all this fun...
brambilla dino 246.jpg
khyndart in CA
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by khyndart in CA »

This was chassis # 004 that Chris Amon drove here in Jan. 1968.

Argentine F2 Temporada Race

Buenos Aires, 1 Dec 1968


Results

Laps

Time/Speed

1 Ernesto "Tino" Brambilla (F2) 1.6-litre Ferrari Dino 166 [0004] 6
#12 SpA Ferrari SEFAC 70 1h 35m 20.6s
94.64 mph

(Old Racing Car . Com ... results )

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GD66
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by GD66 »

Roger that, cheers mate.

Edit : this is what's thrown me out :

http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/formula/0014.dino.166f2.htm
khyndart in CA
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by khyndart in CA »

Looks like the Walter Medlin's Ferrari Dino 166 # 0014 did not have much of a track record to brag about !



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Terry S
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by Terry S »

GD66 wrote:Terry, if you keep poking around you will find it is an F2 Dino 166, with chassis no 014. There are several mentions of it around, including TNF.


After much searching I have also reached conclusion that Medlin's car is a F2 Dino with chassis #14. It was used in 1969 by Clay Regazzoni and Tino Brambilla. After that it is a mystery until it turned up with Medlin.

I cannot see anywhere that it has been sold by Medlin.
GD66
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by GD66 »

It is not really a mystery, if you go to the Barchetta link above in my post #23 you will see the lineage of the car's ownership after its race days.
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by Terry S »

GD66 wrote:It is not really a mystery, if you go to the Barchetta link above in my post #23 you will see the lineage of the car's ownership after its race days.


With the greatest respect, I ignored the Barchhta site after you said in post 23 that it had thrown you out. I merely took your advice.
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by GD66 »

No worries, mate, all good. I'm hoping someone may whack up a link on here to a video clip of the little Ferrari, footage of them is at a premium. Oh, the SOUND....
khyndart in CA
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by khyndart in CA »

I know this is not quite what you were after, but we all need a bit of Maranello magic !

[video=youtube;OmWAR3cwpZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmWAR3cwpZA[/video]


(Thanks to Youtube )
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khyndart in CA
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by khyndart in CA »

More from Maranello.
[video=youtube;25N0MafmtxU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25N0MafmtxU[/video]



(Ken Hyndman )
khyndart in CA
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by khyndart in CA »

I do not mean to spoil this thread but I get a bit carried away with the sounds of Ferraris.
Put on your headphones and enjoy the sounds of V10 Ferraris of 2001-2005 driving at an empty Monza circuit.

[video=youtube;0mHkfCmoMVs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mHkfCmoMVs[/video]



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GD66
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by GD66 »

Good man ! :cool:
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by Kevin Hirst »

GD66 wrote:Good man ! :cool:


Lovely, send a copy to Bernie.
Terry S
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by Terry S »

It is interesting to look at the value of theses cars in their day and ponder how rich a buyer would be now.....

As noted above the Ferrari P4 chassis #0858 owned by Medlin was originally owned by David McKay's Scuderia Veloce.
In his autobiography McKay notes he paid US$30,000 for it in 1969. He would have had to pay another US$34,000 in duty for it if kept in Australia for greater than 12 months. To avoid this he sold it to Aussie Paul Hawkins before the year was up to race in a South African series. What is it worth now?

In regard to the two single seat Ferrari 246T chassis #0008 and #0010 that were raced in the 1969 Tasman Series, McKay notes that Chris Amon told him he was authorised "to sell the 2 cars and spares for US$38,000". Again, what a bargain?

Isn't hindsight a marvellous thing......
GD66
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by GD66 »

David Manton's Pat Hoare book has some interesting stories along this line : well worth a look !
david manton book.jpg
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by Kwaussie »

Terry S wrote:It is interesting to look at the value of theses cars in their day and ponder how rich a buyer would be now.....

As noted above the Ferrari P4 chassis #0858 owned by Medlin was originally owned by David McKay's Scuderia Veloce.
In his autobiography McKay notes he paid US$30,000 for it in 1969. He would have had to pay another US$34,000 in duty for it if kept in Australia for greater than 12 months. To avoid this he sold it to Aussie Paul Hawkins before the year was up to race in a South African series. What is it worth now?

Isn't hindsight a marvellous thing......


Further reading regarding #0858 http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/381798-david-piper-restores-talacrest-p4.html
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by GD66 »

Terry S
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Re: Missing Tasman Series Ferrari?

Post by Terry S »



That thread has had an incredible 3088 posts to date, a lot of them dribble. I admit I have only skimmed through, but here is my précis:

Ferrari built 3 P4's for the 1967 Endurance Championship. Regulation changes meant they could not compete in the 1968 Endurance Championship. So Ferrari converted two of them, 0858 & 0860 to run in the Can Am series. This included new lighter bodies and engines enlarged to 4.2L.
Weight was reduced from 792Kg to 700Kg.

They were however no competition for the Bruce and Denny show in Can Am, so Ferrari sold them off after that.

David Piper eventually bought 0858. He obtained all the necessary P4 blueprints from Ferrari.
Sold the car to Walter Medlin who showed it a few times but basically held it in barn until sold by RM Auctions in 2009.

The new owner commissioned David Piper to "restore" it to its original P4 status. That's where the "controversy" arises.

Is it a P4 or a replica, even though the original conversion to 350 Can Am car was done in the Ferrari factory.

The dispute is worth millions of dollars as a P4 is now worth many millions more than the Can Am car.
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