New Zealand Historic Muscle Cars Under HRC

[Frosty5]

Hi Guys, just a reminder that those who have CoD's for cars running under HMC rules and regulations that CoD's will be mandatory post 31.12.14. If you have them now please forward a colour copy to me so I can get them on the database that is being set up. Address for post or courier is 38 Alconbury Drive, Rototuna, Hamilton 3210. To those to whom I have sent emails re said subject please respond.

Regards
Dave Graham
Technical Auditor
NZHMC

[John McKechnie]

Hi Guys, just a reminder that those who have CoD's for cars running under HMC rules and regulations that CoD's will be mandatory post 31.12.14. If you have them now please forward a colour copy to me so I can get them on the database that is being set up. Address for post or courier is 38 Alconbury Drive, Rototuna, Hamilton 3210. To those to whom I have sent emails re said subject please respond.

Regards
Dave Graham
Technical Auditor
NZHMC

Dave- just spoke to Mike at MSNZ, mine is being processed at the moment

[Kiwiboss]

Heres some 3D imaging of our HMC cars I received on a CD disc via Steve Elliott yesterday. Dale

[fullnoise68]

My wife rang HD today to confirm an apartment for this weekend. Yes, no problem, number 111 is yours..... Not tempting fate, we got them to change it!

[ERC]

Shame you changed it as that is the best view of the track!!!! Oh, and the owner will be most disappointed if it isn't occupied...

[Kiwiboss]

My wife rang HD today to confirm an apartment for this weekend. Yes, no problem, number 111 is yours..... Not tempting fate, we got them to change it!

I was tryin to get room 666 so i could invite Ray over, LOL

Dale M

[John McKechnie]

Room 370, enter and find yourself in the Twilight Zone.

[ERC]

I was tryin to get room 666 so i could invite Ray over, LOL Dale M

Aha! Satan tries to corrupt the pure - or is it the other way around?

[ERC]

I was tryin to get room 666 so i could invite Ray over, LOL Dale M

Aha! Satan tries to corrupt the pure - or is it the other way around?

[Frosty5]

I was tryin to get room 666 so i could invite Ray over, LOL

Dale M

Well that's 3 apartments, any spare beds or couches. Entry by Lyon Rouge and contribution to costs!! Just a thought, no pressure LOL

[Kiwiboss]

Well, with the Legends this weekend HMC has the HUGE turn out of arrrrr, armmm 5 cars!! hmmmm!! and as Ray would say not viable(I agree) so OK all you critics what are we doing wrong? well its actually 4 cars as Roger Williams 69 Camaro is newbie!! actually its 3 as I shouldn't be there this weekend but? since we started some 3 years ago cars have slowly dwindle away, new builds are slow coming even though interest is still very high but talk is cheap!! even just Monday I had some unknown building a Capri V8 for HMC but once again he'll most likely be a couple of years!! im open to learn so im all ears, give it too me!! Dale M

[John McKechnie]

Dale- HSS has 12, I may run there also.
I am straight away down 3 because the Beach Hop is on.
Others tell me-
One is shifting house, another has a bung knee, one has no tyres, one cooked his engine at a meeting, another is at the electrician
Gordon Burr has entered, car could be ready
I sent out 2 sets of emails and personally spoke to people.
However I am rapt that we have the consistent steady supporters, and some new faces from out of town coming.
There is still a couple of days to go for people to enter.

[ERC]

Well, you asked for it!

Dale, what you have been trying to establish is honourable and you have found out (as we all have) that getting interest is not too difficult. Certainly you have had the best publicity possible, with Steve's articles, plus the support of Tony, Crunch and probably all of the H & C Commission as you are promoting exactly THEY/YOU want.

Getting registrations of interest (ie a registration fee or other commitment) and even a valid car is less easy.

Having then got that sort of support, converting that to cars on the track for a number of meetings is the really tough part, as we are all subjected to limitations of time, finance, health, work and family commitments and for some, overseas demands.

If you adopt a very restrictive set of rules and requirements, then out of the theoretical pool of cars, some will indeed play with you, some will play with a series with less restrictive rules and some are happy enough to merely own or show those cars. Geographic considerations are also valid.

We have 35 cars at the last count for this weekend out of a potential 100 drivers so a 1 in three turn out is pretty good. For your grid to be valid that probably means at least 45 complete and available cars, to get between 15 and 20. How many completed HMC cars are there?

We also try to have a series of 6 or 7 rounds with the best 5 top scores to count and yes, it is still chocolate fish racing but may I suggest that by offering just 4 rounds a season, there may be some who would like more racing? Why go to all the trouble of getting a 100% perfect car for just 4 runs a year - and even then, Murphy's law will dictate that you'll miss at least one anyway!

Every series has its strengths and weaknesses and I have accepted the flack for a pragmatic approach to the cars simply, because I really don't think we have a big enough pool of 'pure cars' (or drivers who are keen to run 'pure' cars), to have a viable series - and we have spread our net much wider than you, on capacity, body style and most of all, make and country of origin.

Had we stuck to the original BMC 4 cylinder series, we would have fallen over at least 16 years ago.

To preserve your integrity, just incorporate not just U3L cars, but all cars with a Schedule K/Appendix K certification or running to the same rules as you run now. (Strict period mods.) However, you can't possibly expect to list all the allowable bits and pieces the way you do for the current HMC, as you just make work for yourself and when that happens, you get into all sorts of strife! There were cars excluded from the U3L group at the Festival for whatever reason, and each driver turned away is going to go elsewhere.

I don't run a muscle car, I don't know how many are around and I certainly have no idea how many cars you have 'in preparation', so the only way I see it progressing is by having classes within a larger group and then maybe you have to look at the race formats that appeal to the drivers.

If the group eventually gets to the stage where you have full grids, then is the time to sub-divide again. Don't give in though as you do have theoretical support both for the series and the philosophy. As you say yourself, talk is cheap, very cheap, but it doesn't make a profit for race promoters.

[AMCO72]

This time I am going to make 'no comment' for obvious reasons. I have been told I 'don't get' what HMC is all about, and as one of the cars excluded from the U3L group at the Festival, I am going to let other more vocal race car drivers do the talking and taking the flak this time.

Everyone knows who I am rooting for.

[Kiwiboss]

Ray, i value your experience, may not always agree but i know i'll get a straight answer after-all you've been doing this for awhile!! Our HMC car pool is alot less than ERC maybe 30 if where lucky and thats not counting the builds underway but out of those 30 some require work to become legal but usually this is not much!! the one area i do agree is some are merely just happy to "own and show" there cars and i've now figured some of these guys out and stopped wasting time on them. Incorporating the U3L saloons is fantastic and show case's how NZ saloon car racing use to be so we will continue with this and some of the U3L guys get a kick out of beating the bigger cars!! we do allow Schedule K/Appendix K certified cars in but they also have vanished? is this just a sign of the times?

Compared to historic racing overseas our HMC rules are reasonably free and easy and due to economics we have allowed the likes of wilwood calipers, aftermarket gearbox's, replacement engine components, etc which allows for easier builds so i don't see this as been too restrictive, if i had my way I'd want the air in the tyres to be from 1960, LOL but as we know that would never work in NZ!! on the other hand if we just adopted a no enforcement rule on the regs we would merely be going down the same road of the other muscle car groups and that been the case why bother then!! with our bigger muscle type cars the modern aftermarket compontry available to increase the performance in all directions can be huge, i can put another 100 HP into my car just by added a set of modern aftermarket cylinder heads for $3K, this is what must stop(hope you get the idea of what im saying here) so restrictive, i don't think so!!

Of the U3L cars the only one excluded from the Festival was Angus because his over driving style and the damaged he cause to 3 cars at the previous festival, this seemed the rite call as we had one incident over both weekends racing this year and even that was minor, otherwise i've had great racing with him but everyone else with a complying vehicle was allowed or are there other U3L cars i don't know about? the previous festival we had a 43 car grid(with 7 Aussies) and this was way too much!! oh well!! the ups and downs of motorsport!! anyway Ray, your input and ideas are valued and thats because i respect someone thats out there doing it.

Dale M

[CobraV8]

Hi Dale. I think there are a few things coming to play:

1. Economy - spending is down, entree fees, fuel etc cost a lot, and people will pick and choose the events more, I think this year will still have lower entries all round.
2. Your class- it is restrictive, on purpose, but of course you will feel the pinch easier with smaller reserves of runners
3. People like to win - the cost of doing so in your class is probably quite high. Maybe you need some classes within the category, have some reverse grids, handicapped?
4. Eliteness. I think the post you did a while ago showed your opinion of some other classes. Some would not share this, and maybe you need to acknowledge this and be a bit more total picture friendly? maybe encourage events where your group, plus modded cars wtc get together and boost your presence.
5. Time. You are new, not that different from muscle cars, just need time to establish. You may need to run your class within other groups sometimes?

[CobraV8]

Ps the mini in under 3 litre class. I actually understand you excluding. Angus is no doubt a really fast driver. But in the mini I think he drives at 12/10ths. At leadfoot he spun or hit something every run. If he backed it off a tenth he would have an amazing time, probably the same in your class. In his professional racing I guess that is more accepted, in a fun class, not so much.

[Parnelli]

Well, with the Legends this weekend HMC has the HUGE turn out of arrrrr, armmm 5 cars!! hmmmm!! and as Ray would say not viable(I agree) so OK all you critics what are we doing wrong? well its actually 4 cars as Roger Williams 69 Camaro is newbie!! actually its 3 as I shouldn't be there this weekend but? since we started some 3 years ago cars have slowly dwindle away, new builds are slow coming even though interest is still very high but talk is cheap!! even just Monday I had some unknown building a Capri V8 for HMC but once again he'll most likely be a couple of years!! im open to learn so im all ears, give it too me!! Dale M

Struggling with the eloquence needed to fully express my thoughts stops me adding to this great forum as much as I would like to, but my passion for muscles cars is such, that I will give it a try.

1/ We don’t have enough cashed up supporters in a country of our size to participate in a class where you need $100 K to get on the grid, and then to get any closer to the checkered flag first, will cost a whole lot more than that. I fully accept that winning is not what Historic racing is about but processions don’t turn anyone on.

2/ Given the above , you can not afford to put enthusiastic supporters off by continuing to add more and more unnecessary rules i.e. Rev Limiters, COD’s etc My own car will be an ongoing development as and when funds allow. If every time I upgrade my car, I need to upgrade my COD then forget it.

3/ You need to adopt full reverse grid and handicap races to increase entertainment value for both participants and spectators. If supporters see all cars in the field with an equal chance, then more of them may come out and play.

But mostly you need to be patient and accept that given the extremely high standard set by most of the present cars in the field, then new participants will need both time and money to build their cars.

[John McKechnie]

Importing a Historic car ready to race-cage confirmation and replace perspex with glass- instant gratification. 4 have done this.
Building a car from scratch takes time, sometimes what seems like a year can take 3.There are quite a few out there
Converting an existing car should be an easier option, but its like a house renovation,never that straight forward and the hope of why convert if the rules could change-as if.

Motor racing has never been cheap. I got mine on the track for $35K ,no one told me that this amount wouldnt get me on the grid.

Time runs faster than our cars ever will.
If racing was all I wanted to do -I would run in the 2K class.
Cheaper to replace the car than repair it.

Hey guys we have a race meeting on this weekend, last HRC till Icebreaker, lets just get out and enjoy it

[fullnoise68]

John, importing a vintage race car out of the US is not all about instant gratification, it is also quite economical on the basis of what you get in the car as to pricing out building one. Since I`ve been involved with HMC there has been a lot of `gunnas' going to build this and that and christ knows what else. I`m fortunate enough to own two other road Camaros as well as my race one, and there is quite a big difference from polishing your pride and joy and entering a car show than that of racing side by side well past 100mph.....
That takes a different level of commitment and these are the guys that HMC caters to. When you look at the likes of Nigel McDonald with the ex Red Dawson car, that car conservatively is worth north of $400,000 - far more than most of the Ferraris that were on parade at the Festival -yet he gets out there and gets amongst it. It is not about being elite, it`s more about a group of guys with a common interest in racing period correct muscle cars and celebrating an era of motorsport, plain and simple. The class is not a race series so the critics shouldn`t judge it as one, but once we get a few more currently being built out there, then we will get consistent grid numbers.
Life is not a rehearsal, we are only here once, and HMC also respects those racers who are no longer with us.....