REPLICAS-REBUILD--REBUILT--BUILT--RULES.

[RogerH]

The MSNZ regulations for Schedule K cars means that in a closed car it is mandatory to have a roll bar and optional to have a roll cage. However, they need to be built to the design and specifications contained in Schedule A which probably means they are more robust than in period. The only cars that don't need "modern" roll bars are the genuine pre 1960 single seaters that can have roll bars that equal or exceed the period specifications - if you look at some pre 1960 single seaters, their roll bars were only really decorative.

[CUSTAXIE50]

There are cars out there that some have worked on for years to being back to life, and there is know way you can make them any better than they were,some have there gas tanks sitting over most of your body-the roll bar,just a small loop.but with tin tops you can if you run off-say the back of pukekohe if you put todays safety in the car that was not there in the first case ,there would i think a 80% chance that you will walk away from it. The one thing that should be stopped is letting low sports cars race with tin tops before someone is killed.

[CUSTAXIE50]

So-ROGERH-are you saying that the new owner can race the custaxie with just a roll bar.

[RogerH]

So-ROGERH-are you saying that the new owner can race the custaxie with just a roll bar.

My understanding is that it can run with a half cage to the design of Drawing No 253-3A (page 49 of the link below) and built to the specifications in Schedule A Section 4.4 (page 14 of the link below).
You can find these sections at http://www.motorsport.org.nz/sites/default/files/motorsport/manual/App-2.02-Sch-A-2010.pdf

[stirlingmac]

If the car has lightened doors then a half cage won't be enough to comply..

[RogerH]

If the car has lightened doors then a half cage won't be enough to comply..

That's right - the regulations say :

Lightened doors: In all vehicles fitted with lightened doors the door adjacent to the driver and passenger shall have side intrusion bar/s fitted to the roll protection.
A lightened door is defined as a door that has been modified in any way that affects its overall weight, including; removal of panelling, substitution of panelling, alteration or deletion of window regulators.

I would think from the photos I've seen of the real car that the doors were substantially altered - so that would mean at least side intrusion bars. You may get away without a full cage but as the design would not be one of those in the MSNZ diagrams it would need special approval.

[CUSTAXIE50]

The doors have not been lightened looking at what i can see in some photos to start with, the new custaxie had a half cage,but when i talked to a driver at manfeild who had a drive in the car he said it now has a full cage--so if you look at what stirlingmac had to say the new owner can race with just a half cage ,but before he wants his way with the car and he still wants to race in-IRC put some better brakes on it for the days racing and a better race seat in the car allso .if he drives the car hard he will run out of brakes that are on the car now,just look at what some are running on there cars.

[CUSTAXIE50]

if you look rogerh-at a photo of the inside of the old custaxie you will see that they had put some new panelling on the doors ,to replace the old cards that were there to start with so would that not make the doors more robust.

[Oldfart]

if you look rogerh-at a photo of the inside of the old custaxie you will see that they had put some new panelling on the doors ,to replace the old cards that were there to start with so would that not make the doors more robust.

It may have made them more robust, but we will never really know and the regs state "A lightened door is defined as a door that has been modified in any way that affects its overall weight, including; removal of panelling, substitution of panelling, alteration or deletion of window regulators."
Clearly the doors had panelling substituted, alloy for whatever was on the inside, therefore the rule is clear. Side intrusion required. The owner may want to run how he feels, but like the rest he has no option, comply or don't run.

[CUSTAXIE50]

I do understand-what you are saying oldfart so all he has to do is put the window regulators back in if they are not there and the inside cards back on and bobs your uncle,no side intrusion required is that what you are saying.

[Oldfart]

My gut feeling, and trying to remember the ORIGINAL car is that the frames were well messed around with and they had been made quite a bit less in height from top to sill, so they were certainly modified. The new car may not be the same. But then he does not have to convince me, it's the issuer of the COD who has to be certain!

[CUSTAXIE50]

my way of thinking they only replaced the inside cards,but if you look at the inside of the new car you can see all the door is still there-would there not be 5inchs of the door below the new floor which makes it look less in height and if that is the case ,if a car hits the drivers side it would be stronger because the door and sill would hit the chassis and stop there and not come inside the car .so if you think about it the driver would be better off 10 times over if that part of the car did not get to him so there you go ,maybe someone out there can put some more light on this part of the car--all the best oldfart.

[tonttu]

From the Manawatu Motorsport website.

....... Now the car resides in Wanganui with Robert Bartley. The car has ventured to Manfeild previously,
but safety and regulatory changes were required for the car to be able to run in modern
competition.
“We have made some changes, and really want to come and give the car a hit out before we start
racing in earnest and the Motorsport Manawatu United Travel series gives us the time we need to
run the car” stated Mr Bartley.

And yes he was out running it yesterday in the last round of the winter series and it looked and sounded very nice

[Racer Rog]

At this point in time, you are unable to get a CoD for a repilica saloon, The H & C Commission are working on this, how ever you can get a HTP for a repilica, but these are hard to get as the vehicle must be same as same as, no if's no buts, I am lead to beleive that the past and present owners are aware of what is wrong with the custaxi copy, it is not the same as the original and as has been pointed out in this forum, by a past owner, is quite different in several areas. My advice to any one going to build a repilica, is put it down on paper first, check the rules, read the damm book ( Motor Sport manual 35, and its admendments) this will drop the level of stress that can occur, but dothe homework before opening the tool box!
Roger

[CUSTAXIE50]

At this point in time, you are unable to get a CoD for a repilica saloon, The H & C Commission are working on this, how ever you can get a HTP for a repilica, but these are hard to get as the vehicle must be same as same as, no if's no buts, I am lead to beleive that the past and present owners are aware of what is wrong with the custaxi copy, it is not the same as the original and as has been pointed out in this forum, by a past owner, is quite different in several areas. My advice to any one going to build a repilica, is put it down on paper first, check the rules, read the damm book ( Motor Sport manual 35, and its admendments) this will drop the level of stress that can occur, but dothe homework before opening the tool box!
Roger

The Bruce Mclaren Trusts Canam car where does this car fit in.

[Racer Rog]

The Bruce Mclaren Trusts Canam car where does this car fit in.

As I am only a humble man, what do you mean, don't piss arse around, write it, I don't read minds and try to deal only in facts, as I have said before, the longer in tooth that some drivers and race car builders get, the more they THINK they did, unless spec's can be backed by written facts or a letter from God, some just don't stack up.
Roger

[CUSTAXIE50]

As I am only a humble man, what do you mean, don't piss arse around, write it, I don't read minds and try to deal only in facts, as I have said before, the longer in tooth that some drivers and race car builders get, the more they THINK they did, unless spec's can be backed by written facts or a letter from God, some just don't stack up.
Roger

My view is this car is a replica of a race car,some may say this car has been Rebuilt using some parts from the old car,so what is it what parts did they use from the old car on this new one.You may like to have your say on how this car fits into the rules that are out there that we all have to go by.

[John B]

There is an article in the latest NZ Classic Car magazine (Issue 270, June 2013) that chronicles the complete history and rebuild of the M8A-2. It goes into detail about Lothar Motschenbacher rebuilding the tub after his big crash in 1970, then Denny Hulme shipping the car back to NZ, and eventually it being presented to MOTAT in 1978.

Admittedly at that time the tub was fitted with an M8D body, but the McLaren Trust and Duncan Fox did a methodical 10 year restoration of the car, restoring it back to M8A-2 specs. The article talks about the original parts used, and the parts that needed to be recreated. I can't see how this can be classed as "...a replica of a race car."

[rf84]

I doubt if there are any totally original race cars in existence. As soon as you replace any component, no matter how small, or repaint a car it is strictly speaking no longer original. There are DEGREES of originality (in other words, some cars are more original than others).

[John McKechnie]

There are two interesting words with these historic cars which indicate so much- authentic and original.
Authentic means the real deal with work done.
This does away with my grandfathers knife where three blades and two handles have been changed.