The State of NZ Motorsport.

[DJMcD]

Who was that World Champion?

...and it's MSNZ.
MANZ is the Motel Association of NZ

Today its known MSNZ but was originally called Motorsport Association of New Zealand (MANZ) The quote was from Denny Hulme. Non de plumes are fine but who is "Crunch"?

[rf84]

Congratulations to Roger and TACCOC. As an Observer at the upcoming MSNZ Executive meeting in Auckland in May I received a copy of their Remit about a month ago. It has been published in our HB Car Club magazine so members have had an opportunity to have some input and direct our Delegate on how to vote.
This is how the system should work. Roger and TACCOC have followed the correct procedure and are to be commended for doing so. If all Clubs affiliated to MSNZ did the same they would be empowering their members by giving them some voice in the decisions made by MSNZ. By not following this model the Committees of car clubs are simply failing their members who (justifiably) feel that they are powerless to change the rules and regulations that govern our sport. In fairly typical Kiwi fashion they bitch and grumble about the situation to their mates and on forums such as this and soon get p----d off with the whole administration.
Perhaps in future you should put the 'hard word' on your respective car club Committees to do what Roger and TACCOC have done with this Remit. Follow the correct procedure. Don't blame the 'system' for failing you when you don't use the system correctly. TACCOC have used the system correctly and as a result have a very real chance of effecting a big change in the organisation of our sport.
This is the only way we will get true representation of rank-and-file car club members at the MSNZ Executive meeting. Maybe then the situation will be as it should be-where the dog wags the tail. Not the situation we have at the moment where the tail (MSNZ) controls us. Or, to put it another way, a situation where "the monkeys no longer run the zoo".

[RogerH]

Today its known MSNZ but was originally called Motorsport Association of New Zealand (MANZ) The quote was from Denny Hulme. Non de plumes are fine but who is "Crunch"?

Crunch is Raymond "Crunch" Bennett who is a Vice-President of MSNZ.

MSNZ have a policy of appointing an Executive member as Chairman of each Advisory Commission. As there are no Historic and Classic Executive members Crunch has been appointed as Chairman of the Historic and Classic Commission even though his background has been in rally (he is a rally co-driver).

I have dealt with Crunch on a number of occasions and found him to be a "good guy".

[logy22]

A major problem with motorsport in nz at the moment is with the event promoters continually competing against each other for example having Timaru and Teretonga NZV8 meeting the same weekends as the festival of motor racing there are people who are involved in both like Motorsport Solutions. Everbody needs to sit down and sort this out it killing NZ motorsport

[crunch]

Certainly right Logy22.

[Russ Cunningham]

Remember, The Roaring Season is a discussion forum for motorsport history and historic racing. I've visited various discussion forums for years and I've yet to read a discussion thread on modern motorsport that doesn't get overly heated and emotional, and end up as an all-out slanging match. Rarely does anything good come from these. As long as this thread stays on topic, is fact based, and doesn't stray towards the topic of modern day motorsport, I'm happy.

Steve,

With due respect, I beg to differ. Modern day motorsport is exactly what the thread is about & it's plain to see that a large number of folk are very unhappy.

The Roaring Season Forum is a ideal place for this discussion to take place if it assists in change.

Regards,

Russ Cunningham

ps. I realise it does not fit into the historical context but where else can enthusiasts and competitors express their thoughts? There are no other website forums that I'm aware of dedicated to Kiwi motorsport followers.

[jim short]

Try ten tenths thats all they do nzv8s. nzv8 tomrrow petch and his pals some use 3 diff names to win there point!!!!

[Steve Holmes]

Russ, The Roaring Season isn't an NZ website, its international. It has international membership and international content. The text at the bottom of the Header reads "International Bench Racing Community For Historic Motor Racing And Motorsport History". It does have very strong NZ content, thanks in part to my passion for NZ motorsport history, but its an international website. I have nothing against modern motorsport, I follow several different formulae around the world, but there are plenty of forums that already cater for this. In my experience, the subject of modern motorsport and motorsport governing bodies almost always gets extremely heated, and ends with people getting pissed off and just leaving the forum for good.

Ten-tenths has an international and national Single Seater section: http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26 and they have an Australasian Touring Cars section: http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=37 I've read several NZ related threads on both of these.

If I let a debate about the state of modern NZ motorsport run, I then have to let similar threads be created for the US, the UK, Australia, etc etc, and before we know it, The Roaring Season is no different to any other online discussion forum.

[Trevor Sheffield]

Steve,

You are on the right track. An adequate cross section of points has been recorded and the thread can be closed after repitition of this previous post by rf84, which exactly sums up the situation. ----

Congratulations to Roger and TACCOC. As an Observer at the upcoming MSNZ Executive meeting in Auckland in May I received a copy of their Remit about a month ago. It has been published in our HB Car Club magazine so members have had an opportunity to have some input and direct our Delegate on how to vote.

This is how the system should work. Roger and TACCOC have followed the correct procedure and are to be commended for doing so. If all Clubs affiliated to MSNZ did the same they would be empowering their members by giving them some voice in the decisions made by MSNZ. By not following this model the Committees of car clubs are simply failing their members who (justifiably) feel that they are powerless to change the rules and regulations that govern our sport.

In fairly typical Kiwi fashion they bitch and grumble about the situation to their mates and on forums such as this and soon get p----d off with the whole administration. Perhaps in future you should put the 'hard word' on your respective car club Committees to do what Roger and TACCOC have done with this Remit. Follow the correct procedure.

Don't blame the 'system' for failing you when you don't use the system correctly. TACCOC have used the system correctly and as a result have a very real chance of effecting a big change in the organisation of our sport.

This is the only way we will get true representation of rank-and-file car club members at the MSNZ Executive meeting. Maybe then the situation will be as it should be-where the dog wags the tail. Not the situation we have at the moment where the tail (MSNZ) controls us. Or, to put it another way, a situation where "the monkeys no longer run the zoo".

[john l]

could some of the problem re lack lustre meetings be that virtually all modern classes are control classes?

[Steve Holmes]

Steve,

You are on the right track. An adequate cross section of points has been recorded and the thread can be closed after repitition of this previous post by rf84, which exactly sums up the situation. ----

Congratulations to Roger and TACCOC. As an Observer at the upcoming MSNZ Executive meeting in Auckland in May I received a copy of their Remit about a month ago. It has been published in our HB Car Club magazine so members have had an opportunity to have some input and direct our Delegate on how to vote.

This is how the system should work. Roger and TACCOC have followed the correct procedure and are to be commended for doing so. If all Clubs affiliated to MSNZ did the same they would be empowering their members by giving them some voice in the decisions made by MSNZ. By not following this model the Committees of car clubs are simply failing their members who (justifiably) feel that they are powerless to change the rules and regulations that govern our sport.

In fairly typical Kiwi fashion they bitch and grumble about the situation to their mates and on forums such as this and soon get p----d off with the whole administration. Perhaps in future you should put the 'hard word' on your respective car club Committees to do what Roger and TACCOC have done with this Remit. Follow the correct procedure.

Don't blame the 'system' for failing you when you don't use the system correctly. TACCOC have used the system correctly and as a result have a very real chance of effecting a big change in the organisation of our sport.

This is the only way we will get true representation of rank-and-file car club members at the MSNZ Executive meeting. Maybe then the situation will be as it should be-where the dog wags the tail. Not the situation we have at the moment where the tail (MSNZ) controls us. Or, to put it another way, a situation where "the monkeys no longer run the zoo".

Thanks Trevor. There is already quite a bit of discussion on this thread about NZ historic racing, so I'm happy for it to keep running, if anyone wishes to discuss the matter further.

[richard lester]

could some of the problem re lack lustre meetings be that virtually all modern classes are control classes?

i really believe the biggest change over the past decade or two has been TV/playstation/gameboys/music/facebook/computors/drugs/other sports/all night clubs/laziness/rebellion etc etc etc and not in any particular order--the worlds changed.when i grew up we had rugby racing cricket and motorsport and fanny all on the new TV and being indoors was not cool................motorsport events were an enjoyable family outing regardless of what was on show for many.......

[Russ Cunningham]

Russ, The Roaring Season isn't an NZ website, its international. It has international membership and international content. The text at the bottom of the Header reads "International Bench Racing Community For Historic Motor Racing And Motorsport History". It does have very strong NZ content, thanks in part to my passion for NZ motorsport history, but its an international website. I have nothing against modern motorsport, I follow several different formulae around the world, but there are plenty of forums that already cater for this. In my experience, the subject of modern motorsport and motorsport governing bodies almost always gets extremely heated, and ends with people getting pissed off and just leaving the forum for good.

Ten-tenths has an international and national Single Seater section: http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=26 and they have an Australasian Touring Cars section: http://www.ten-tenths.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=37 I've read several NZ related threads on both of these.

If I let a debate about the state of modern NZ motorsport run, I then have to let similar threads be created for the US, the UK, Australia, etc etc, and before we know it, The Roaring Season is no different to any other online discussion forum.

Thank you for the reply, Steve. I can see your point of view.

Regards,

Russ

[conrod]

i really believe the biggest change over the past decade or two has been TV/playstation/gameboys/music/facebook/computors/drugs/other sports/all night clubs/laziness/rebellion etc etc etc and not in any particular order--the worlds changed.when i grew up we had rugby racing cricket and motorsport and fanny all on the new TV and being indoors was not cool................motorsport events were an enjoyable family outing regardless of what was on show for many.......

I think you have hit the nail on the head Richard. So many other things competing for the entertainment dollar these days. We will never see crowds again of the size that we used to 20+ years ago.

Which means we have to look at other ways to help fund the sport, rather than relying on selling tickets at the gate. Invariably it means that we as competitors will end up paying a large portion ourselves in the form of entry fees (what, the star performers have to pay to attend??!!!!) but we do still have it very good in NZ. An event in the UK or US will cost many times more to compete in than what we pay here.

As you say, the world has changed, and we must adjust accordingly

Conrad

[Lurker]

Interesting article in the Herald - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10798978

[crunch]

Interesting article in the Herald - http://www.nzherald.co.nz/motoring/news/article.cfm?c_id=9&objectid=10798978

An interesting read....lacking in fact in places, but hey; what else is new?

Where do the rumours that Hampton Downs is going broke come from???

[Oldfart]

An interesting read....lacking in fact in places, but hey; what else is new?

Where do the rumours that Hampton Downs is going broke come from???

Tall poppy?

[PaulieG]

I think you have hit the nail on the head Richard. So many other things competing for the entertainment dollar these days. We will never see crowds again of the size that we used to 20+ years ago.

Which means we have to look at other ways to help fund the sport, rather than relying on selling tickets at the gate. Invariably it means that we as competitors will end up paying a large portion ourselves in the form of entry fees (what, the star performers have to pay to attend??!!!!) but we do still have it very good in NZ. An event in the UK or US will cost many times more to compete in than what we pay here.

As you say, the world has changed, and we must adjust accordingly

Conrad

While this point is valid, as a younger menber of this forum, and a mad keen motorsport enthusiast, and while a young family and 60+ hours a week at work restrict my participation to watching and attending motorsport events, I must say that I believe the fans can be drawn back to the tracks as a measure of entertainment and a family day out. What the sport needs is effective promoters that can draw the crowd as a full family experience. I realise that money is scarce at the moment but asking competitors to fully pay for a meeting turns the event into a track day. It would be hard work, but the Supertourer franchise have started the ball rolling, with awesome promotion and some very good racing. In the recent years (other than club events) I have been to A1GP, NZV8's, Aus Supercar, and NZ Supertourer. Other than the main category the Supertourer support categories were awesome, especially the Honda Cup and Muscle Cars. As many people stayed to watch these events as the main event. Why can't historic sport cars or F5000 jump on board and fill out the slots with some amazing sounds and racing? Why cant motorsport fraternities stick together, sort out the best classes to run and stick with them to create a series worth investing in? Re-invest in Formula Ford, push Toyota Series, bring back the Minis or Swift Series, include Honda Cup, Historic/Central Muscle Cars, F5000, Supertourers and V8 development, and BMW series. Ten national meetings throughout the year 2 @ Puke, 2 @ Hampton, 2 @ Taupo 2 @ Manfield 2 @Ruapuna. Each track gets the same opportunity to promote the meetings, and get some patronage to help push their club racing. Only ideas and by no means a perfect solution, but worth thinking about!

[stirlingmac]

I too am a long time motorsport nut, and I find the current fields in the Tier 1 meetings boring. I have watched the new Supertourers and don't find them exciting. I am over the Ford vs Holden stuff.... I relate to my hero cars so classic meetings are more my thing with I guess most of the visitors on this site. I believe as enthusiasts we relate to the cars and drivers we saw as heros when we were first bitten by the bug, be that Denny in a McLaren, Brock in a Holden or Reg in a Nissan. It is the reason that classes like Central Districts Muscle Cars and Historic Muscle Cars are flourishing. Many years ago now I was part of the team which developed the MG Classic meeting and saw it go from strength to strength, so I was a little surprised to be told in the weekend by a reliable source that the next meeting may be the last !! I get excited about seeing a field of ex Shellsport saloons and OSCA and sports sedans roaring around. Having a family of teenagers I have seen where their and their mates attention is grabbed regarding current motorsport. Drifting is number 1, followed by drag racing. Most of them love the old school cars..Escorts, Datsuns and muscle cars. Open wheelers don't get a look in including F1. The future of motorsport in NZ will I believe consist of two distinct factions, as has already developed. There will be those trying to run current cars and championships chasing corporate money and the others that are happy to run in cars /fields of historic and classics running primarily out of their own pockets and volunteers. The feilds of classics obviously will get larger as there are more of them. My interests won't change too much in the next 20 yrs and I think it will be a safe bet that I still won't be interested in watching a 20 yr old fully restored Suzuki Swift racecar in a classic meeting, because I just won't relate to it.. but there will be people who will relate to it and recall at the time what they were doing/experiencing when the cars were current. "Variety is the spice of life"...as my grandma used to say.

[PaulieG]

Funny you should mention the MG Classic meeting. My father Roger has attended the event every year for 15+ years but last year decided for the first time that it was too expensive for a weekend racing. So the Buckler sat in the shed. It hasnt moved since we returned from the NZFMR in 2011! (Albeit we have been hard out restoring the Lotus!) but regardless by the time he paid for three nights accomodation, entry fees petrol for racing and towing and food you can kiss goodbye to 1500 bucks. Shows one example of why young people tend to play the video games etc when its so much cheaper to stay at home, and it isnt surprising why competitor numbers are dropping. As far as heroes go mine too were Peter Brock Dick Johnson etc, but my kids now look up to the likes of Johnny Mac and Greg Murphy as these guys are accessible to todays youth. If only there was a way to bring back the racing of the 60's and 70's to todays market.