Widebody S4 Lotus Seven

S4seven · Post by **S4seven** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:09 am

what info can you share on the two chassis numbers. 3060 is in the range for steel bro build cars, but 3995 doesn't in to the NZ or UK list of chassis numbers

bry3500 · Post by **bry3500** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 4:19 am

The value of having a good strong roll bar on a Seven..bit off topic, but some good footage here...[video=youtube;k0r-HNKfxVc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0r-HNKfxVc&feature=related[/video]

Trevor Sheffield · Post by **Trevor Sheffield** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 6:21 am

Trevor Sheffield wrote:Thanks. mailto:?subject=&body=

Do you know what happened to the original knock on wheels and hubs?

S4seven.

I am looking forward to receiving the photo you promised, as well as advice regarding the knock on wheels. To assist further, I repeat my e-mail address:-

mailto:

?subject=&body=

Trevor.

S4seven · Post by **S4seven** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:23 pm

I sent it to your email last week, I'll send it again

S4seven · Post by **S4seven** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 8:34 pm

I sent it to your email last week, sent again at 9.30 this morning

Trevor Sheffield · Post by **Trevor Sheffield** » Sat Jan 14, 2012 10:34 pm

S4seven wrote:I sent it to your email last week, sent again at 9.30 this morning

Special thanks as I did not receive the previous message.

When enlarged on my Mac. the photo you have kindly sent, shows a registration plate Q9169, as against my car GR7169. I do not see it as being the car I owned.

After purchasing the car, I talked to someone in the Auckland Lotus Club, who knew something of its previous club racing history, which as I understood it only involved North Island circuits. There was no suggestion of it ever having been fitted with wire wheels, with the main topic of the conversation covering a period of rather harsh treatment.

Whatever, thanks for your efforts to assist.

Trevor.

S4seven · Post by **S4seven** » Sun Jan 15, 2012 12:52 am

Trevor. The picture I sent has GR7169 sitting next tp GR7171.
Gr7169 reregistered as NR8468 and now FLP100 The car is now white and living in Christchurch which I think it always has done?

aussiemonza · Post by **aussiemonza** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 9:34 am

S4seven wrote:what info can you share on the two chassis numbers. 3060 is in the range for steel bro build cars, but 3995 doesn't in to the NZ or UK list of chassis numbers

The Chassis Numbers are listed in the CAMS Log Books for the two "wide body" (Australian version) cars that we have. The 3995 was logged in 1978 but the 3060 was logged in 1980. Both cars have documented ASCC history, the question we have is are they Steel Bros cars or Norwich cars?

Any hints as to where chassis numbers or ID can be found on the cars?

CCC

Paul Wilkinson · Post by **Paul Wilkinson** » Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:03 am

You can clearly see the plate on this old S4 I used to own. It is on the folded steel bulkhead - passenger side. This is the standard placement for all the Steel Bros cars I have ever seen.

S4seven · Post by **S4seven** » Sun Jan 22, 2012 7:39 am

Chassis 3060 if a Steel bros. car would have been built in '76 and sorry 3995 doesn't seem to fit, is this the black car with yellow strip for sale at the moment?. Only NZ built cars seem to come with a wide body.

aussiemonza · Post by **aussiemonza** » Tue Jan 24, 2012 3:18 am

S4seven wrote:Chassis 3060 if a Steel bros. car would have been built in '76 and sorry 3995 doesn't seem to fit, is this the black car with yellow strip for sale at the moment?. Only NZ built cars seem to come with a wide body.

Both cars have widened bodies but I don't think were based on the Steel Bros wide body as being discussed here. I will attempt to post a photo of my car.

Kghaas · Post by **Kghaas** » Thu Feb 02, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi Paul, and congratulations with Your S4. As it happends I just bought one myself here on the other side of the world

It is just a normal S4, but I will somehow modify it along the way. I have to questions for you: is the track with up front the same as an S4 or is it wider? Secondly, do you have and pics of the rear setup?

If you are interested to see my car, I have started a thread on Pistonheads:

Paul Wilkinson · Post by **Paul Wilkinson** » Sat Feb 04, 2012 11:30 am

Hi, I've seen your thread - nice car!
I think the suspension in my car was originally the same as the normal cars and they just gave it wider guards to fit bigger rubber. In my opinion it is over-tyred for such a light car. I don't think a Twincam powered S4 is ever going to need a wider tyre than 185 and they fit under the stock guards nicely.
Now that I've sold my other 7 I'll bring the car home. I'll take some pictures of the rear suspension then....

cossie · Post by **cossie** » Mon Mar 12, 2012 3:35 pm

Hello down under,

I found this thread the other day and have read it with great interest. I have done a lot of research on the Lotus 7 and the Lotus approved Seven derivatives. I take pride in getting the history as accurate as possible, because I believe that there are enough inaccurate books on the Seven already. I have during the past 20 years personally talked to many former Lotus employees involved in the Seven. Unfortunately there is only one remaining former Lotus executive left who I finally got to talk the other day. I am a Lotus owner myself. I have done some research on the "company X 7", but after reading this tread I believe that my research is far from over

I am only interested in the Sevens manufactured by "Company X", not the Seven kits they imported from England. Here is what I am told so far:

“Company X" build Lotus 7 S4 in a "country close to Australia". Caterham and/or Lotus send a frame jig and a body mold to them. These Sevens were build from approx. 1973 to 1976 on a 3 year licenses issued by Caterham. They made 97 cars - 50 with the Lotus twin cam engine & 47 with the Lotus 907 engine. They used the Lotus name on their cars but that was never approved by Lotus. They even tried to get the 907 EPA/DOT approved for export to the US but that never happened.”

Please feel free to correct the above.

*It has been told that it was Lotus who licensed "Company X", but according to reliable source that is probably incorrect because Lotus reached a binding agreement with Caterham in July 1971. In that agreement Caterham took over the production rights of ALL Lotus 7 types and committed themselves to support existing Lotus Sevens. The agreement was however first finalized in May 1973.

*Does anybody have the VIN numbers for the "company X 7"? I have some.

*Is the 907 engine "company X 7" all widebody Super 907?

*Was the Super 907 ever approved for road use?

*Paul (Wilkinson) the VIN (chassis) no. 3094 you display – Is that the VIN for your widebody Seven?

I am looking forward to be hearing from you all.

Mike

Paul Wilkinson · Post by **Paul Wilkinson** » Wed Mar 14, 2012 9:55 pm

Hi Mike,

There are plenty of people who know a lot more about this than I do so a lot of what I say is just my opinion and I am happy to be corrected.

Steel Brothers could not have been licensed by Caterham. Caterham didn't have the right to use the Lotus name and therefore couldn't assign that right to a third party. Steel Brothers must have been licensed by Lotus directly. Colin Chapman was famous for his side-deals etc and I wouldn't be surprised if Caterham's agreement didn't extent beyond the UK/Europe. As far as I can tell, Steel's production of the 7 started in '74 and ended in '79. I have always been under the impression that only a handful were made with the 907 engine.
One thing I have always wondered is who made the first 50 kits that were sent to Steel Brothers? Lotus and Caterham had stopped production by that stage. Did Chapman have them quietly made at Lotus without Caterhan knowing or did Caterham make them for Lotus? If Caterham had made them then their S4 production numbers would be far higher than is claimed in all publications...
S4seven on this board has a record of all the Chassis numbers made by Steel Brothers and I believe knows the location of a fair proportion of them. The chassis plate in the photo is from one of my earlier S4s, not my current one.

Cheers,

Paul.

cossie · Post by **cossie** » Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:54 am

Hi Paul,

Colin Chapman could be a devious so and so but I don’t believe that he would do anything in this case that could jeopardize the deal with Caterham. He absolutely wanted to get rid of the Seven and as fast as possible.

Colin Chapman had to protect the Lotus name for legal reasons (I have the full story about that) and therefore nobody (to my knowledge) have never been permitted to use the Lotus name on cars or kits not produced by Lotus England. Not even Caterham and they tried hard to keep the Lotus name on the Seven.

What I am told is that with the exception of Lotus & Caterham, 3 other manufactures have been allowed to manufacture the Seven under license. "Company X" was one of them.

So the displayed chassis number is for the red one you displayed (engine compartment)? What’s the chassis number on your “black monster”?

Where can I find a list of the "Company X 7" chassis numbers on this board as you wrote?

Cheers,

Mike

Paul Wilkinson · Post by **Paul Wilkinson** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:01 am

Hi Mike,

You're right about CC but I don't think he cared too much about Caterham, as far as he was concerned he'd sold them a pup. He was over the 7 and just wanted to get whatever money he could, from wherever. I think his flexibility was directly related to how close he was skating to the edge of financial disaster at that particular point in time! The local people involved in brokering the deal with Lotus are still around and it was definately kosher, they've jumped through the hoops for various authors and proven their position. There is no way that a company could have illegally made Lotus-badged cars for 5 years without attracting the attention of Lotus. There is also no way a major manufacturer such as Steel Brothers would have taken that risk.

http://www.hulmesupercars.com/people/1016/david-dixon/

I'm still curious as to who made those first 50 kits send from the UK - it must have been Lotus and not Caterham for previously mentioned reasons. This all happened a year or so after Caterham bought the rights to manufacture the 7 and at about the time they gave up on the Series 4. Maybe it was a good way of dumping stock that was surplus to requirement?

From memory I believe my chassis is 3078. There is a member on this board who has all the details, hopefully he will chime in at some stage.

Cheers,

Paul

Paul Wilkinson · Post by **Paul Wilkinson** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:13 am

Paul Wilkinson · Post by **Paul Wilkinson** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 12:14 am

cossie · Post by **cossie** » Fri Mar 16, 2012 2:05 pm

Hi Paul,

The 50 S4 kits (some say a lot more) were delivered to "Company X" from Lotus before "Company X" started their own Seven production. These cars are genuine Lotus Sevens. The Sevens produced by "Company X" from 1973 – 1976 ? were Sevens using the original Lotus jig and molds.

There are made approx. 2400 genuine Lotus Seven (all models) and out of them around 5000 have survived

That’s the severity of the Seven forgeries. However I am not the person to judge what you call a Lotus not produced by Lotus. Graham Nearn called them Caterham.

Anyway I am very interested in more info. on the "Company X 7" regarding chassis numbers, production numbers, photos Etc.

Cheers,

Mike

The Roaring Season