Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

Post a reply

Confirmation code
Enter the code exactly as it appears. All letters are case insensitive.
Smilies
:) :o :D ;) :p :mad: :confused: :( :rolleyes: :cool: :eek:

BBCode is ON
[img] is ON
[url] is ON
Smilies are ON

Topic review
   

Expand view Topic review: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by David McKinney » Wed Aug 07, 2013 9:51 am

Michael Clark wrote:Murray, I thought Lou Sell was the original FA champion

Yes and no...

In 1965 the SCCA replaced the formule libre and FJ classes at its amateur meetings with three new classes, FA, FB and FC, the biggest allowing engines up to 3000cc. The championship was decided at an end-of-season event called the US Road Race of Champions, usually known as the "run-offs" in which the top guys from the various regional championships came together to decide the national title. So few big cars competed in the regions that first year that none in fact qualified for the USRRC

The same year the Formula Racing Association ran three races to the same rules, but it seems only the race at Continental Divide attracted any FA entries. Winner was Hap Sharp in a Cooper-Climax T53

The FRA seems not to have run races for FA cars after that, but there were was stronger FA competition in most regions in 1966. Harry McIntosh in a Brabham-Climax won the run-offs

In 1967 the USRRC winner was Chuck Kirkbride in a Lotus18, and in 1968 the title went to Ron Grable (Sceptre HR1)

Meanwhile in 1967 the SCCA had inaugurated its so-called Grand Prix Championship, a national series of five races in which FA, FB and FC cars ran together. The FB cars dominated, but it seems McIntosh (Brabham) was the highest-placed FA driver in the series

The folllowing year the SCCA admitted 5-litre stock-block engines to FA, and the GP Championship was won by Lou Sell (Eagle-Chevrolet)

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by John B » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:41 am

Roger Dowding wrote:Dunedin Driver Lin Neilson in the late 1960s at Teretonga Park near Invercargill. This is the southern most circuit in the world and is operated by the Southland Sports Car Club. He is testing his new lightweight Mini Cooper S.
That is one lightweight Mini, chopped roof, fibreglass front looks like a ' flip / lift one ' and looking like a " Minisprint " except the seams are still there, around the roof and down the front and rear as well, fat wheels on the front narrower on the back great stuff.


Is there meant to be an image with this?
Cheers, John

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Roger Dowding » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:14 am

Dunedin Driver Lin Neilson in the late 1960s at Teretonga Park near Invercargill. This is the southern most circuit in the world and is operated by the Southland Sports Car Club. He is testing his new lightweight Mini Cooper S.
That is one lightweight Mini, chopped roof, fibreglass front looks like a ' flip / lift one ' and looking like a " Minisprint " except the seams are still there, around the roof and down the front and rear as well, fat wheels on the front narrower on the back great stuff.

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Michael Clark » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:50 am

Murray, I thought Lou Sell was the original FA champion

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Murray Maunder » Tue Aug 06, 2013 4:27 am

He was the original Formula A champion in USA, fairly solid performer but not in McRae's league IMHO.

Aren't black and whites great when done well?

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by John McKechnie » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:31 am

I was told that Grable was one of the stunt drivers in "Bullitt"- turns out that he wasnt.

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Michael Clark » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:55 am

That's it - Rex Ramsey in the Le Grand with Stew McMillan in the 'fat one' Eisert #5 on the outside and Grable's winning Sceptre wedge in behind

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by GD66 » Mon Aug 05, 2013 9:08 am

From the Bay Park thread...

Pierre Phillips in the Lola T140 leads this demonstration lap, from Rex Ramsey in the LeGrand Mk 7 : on the outside, Stew McMillan in "The Fat One" Eisert FA, and winner Ron Grable's Spectre HR-1.
qaqv.jpg


Lola looks kinda scary with NO wings...

Edit : Sorry Michael, I must have been editing as you sent yours...

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Michael Clark » Mon Aug 05, 2013 7:51 am

The T190 was Lola's third 5000 but really the second design in as far as the 142 was an update of the 140.

In the UK, customers in 1970 could choose between the M10B McLaren - the update of the championship winning 10A from the previous year, the Surtees TS5A - another update, or the Lotus 70. I guess there was the Leda but that was a risky choice - so really the Lola was the only new design from a company with 5000 experience. I would guess that most 190 customers were either 'Lola people' (like Norinder) or those that weren't high enough on the Surtees and McLaren waiting lists.

As far a s a timeline is concerned:

1968 Formula A introduced in the US - the main purpose built customer cars were from Lola, Eagle, Le Grand and McKee. Fields were bolstered by converted USACs and various other stuff including one offs like the Sceptre

FA went to Europe in 1969 and was called Formula 5000 - it is perhaps the only time in history where America adopted Someone else's name for a category that they originally invented

Anyway, McLaren and Surtees introduced customer cars - only one McLaren M10A ever raced in the 69 UK/Europe championship with the majority of them going to the States. I think two or three TS5s raced in the UK but again most of a much smaller production run went to the States. The Eagle was updated but that was pretty much the end for US built 5000s at the sharp end of 5000 grids.

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Steve Holmes » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:40 pm

Yes thats right John, in early Formula A/F5000 years, converted USAC cars were commonly raced. But the T190 was a purpose built Formula A/F5000 chassis. My basic understanding is that it wasn't so much a direct evolution of the T142, which itself was an evolution of the T140, but it must have shared many similarities? The T140 was created from the outset for Formula A/F5000.

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by John McKechnie » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:28 pm

Steve- At the time I remember reading that this was an early stage of F5000, especially at Tasman Series.
As such some Indianopolis type cars were used- like Eisert Chev.
Big oval cars and not very nimble.
McLarens soon changed that.
Some one with more knowledge than me can fill in more fully and correctly

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Steve Holmes » Sun Aug 04, 2013 10:18 pm

This is interesting to me, I didn't realise the T190 wasn't a good car. What was wrong with them?

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Rod Grimwood » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:01 pm

Grant Sprague wrote:l thought for a minute , Gary doing a wet slid but no wipers on car, could have been mercury series as door not fitting correctly [alloy doors & bonnet] ps Gary would often do this on our city streets in the same car be fore it became a race car................lil bro


Must have been trained by same person Grant. A few years later on at BP, different car but common pose in Escorts. They were fun.
Attachments
006 resize.jpg
002.jpg

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by David McKinney » Sat Aug 03, 2013 11:03 am

Ulf Norinder had raced a Lola T142 before bringing the T190 to NZ. In answer to my question as to how they compared, he said "Night and day". At the time I thought he meant the T190 was better :)

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Michael Clark » Fri Aug 02, 2013 9:31 am

To be fair Steve, my comment is made with the benefit of knowing they were duds in period - it was only when Frank Gardner lengthened the wheelbase, and created the T192 in doing so, that the car 'came good'.

But the short wheelbase just looks wrong - but Eric Broadley must have had a theory...

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Steve Holmes » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:05 pm

John McKechnie wrote:At last, finally found this-F.Turner Alfa Romeo Special from p.29 Motorman July 1968.
David Mckinney- you had the correct man.
Doesnt figure in the results.


Great stuff John, thanks.

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Steve Holmes » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:05 pm

Michael Clark wrote:I'm far from an engineer or aerodynamics expert, but the Lola T190 just looks wrong to me


That one in particular Michael, or T190s in general?

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Grant Sprague » Sun Jul 28, 2013 7:44 am

Not wrong there , might have been set up for pikes peak .......... elllch should not judge :p

Re: Photos: The Bill Pottinger Collection - Part 1

by Michael Clark » Sun Jul 28, 2013 6:30 am

I'm far from an engineer or aerodynamics expert, but the Lola T190 just looks wrong to me

Top