Front engined single seaters

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Expand view Topic review: Front engined single seaters

Re: Front engined single seaters

by Oldfart » Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:45 pm

Thanks David, total agreement.
Grand Prix only means "Big Prize" and historically there are a good number of times in Europe where there were a number of Grands Prix in the same country in the same year. A Grand Prix of the country could also be held. eg GP de France, as well as a Grand Prix at Angloueme, Albi, Caen, Dieppe etc etc.
As far as I know (and am likely to be wrong) there was no requirement in the "good old days" for a GP to be authorised by any hierarchy, so I guess that the Ohakea event may fit that. However we like it or don't, it was the 1st Grand Prix so named in NZ, and as David says the Ardmore event was named as the 1st INTERNATIONAL.

Re: Front engined single seaters

by David McKinney » Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:58 am

First New Zealand Grand Prix - Ohakea 1950
First NZ International GP - Ardmore 1955 (as the programme says)
Third NZ Grand Prix - Ardmore 1956 (as the programme says)

The trouble only really starts the following year, when the 1957 programme refers to the "fourth NZ International GP", when - strictly speaking - it was the third. In other words it was at that stage that the organisers retro-applied the "NZ International GP" title to the 1954 Ardmore race

Re: Front engined single seaters

by stubuchanan » Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:09 am

Oldfart wrote:Come on Stu, we are not still denying that the first NZ Grand Prix was at Ohakea are we? :)
But you did say the "first-ever NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore", I guess that could be interpreted differently.


Does a handicap race really qualify as a Grand Prix (apart from one French GP and a number of Oz GPs)?

Ardmore GP organisers were not sure about their numbers either, here are title pages from 1955 and 1956 GP programmes.

Image

So, officially, there never was a second NZ International Grand Prix. Try explaining that to your grandchildren!

Stu

Re: Front engined single seaters

by Oldfart » Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:43 pm

Kwaussie wrote:Post #20 is I think the Holroyd /Ross/ Bunce / A50 Special. This could be a very early photo when it was Ford 10 powered.

If you go post # 19 I will agree, my post 20 shows a car with wires, and what seems to be the dashpots of 3 carbs on the RH side of the engine. I have checked with the current "custodian" of the A50 and he tells me it never had wires.Not being picky, but you know that this is likely to be quoted as evidence some time in the future!

Re: Front engined single seaters

by David McKinney » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:35 pm

Nice thread to put up when I'm away from my computer :)

Some confirmations and corrections (by post no.)

2. Whitehead's Ferrari from the 1954 GP

3. Parnell's 1957 Supersqualo (with Roycroft's 375 in the background)

4. Roycroft's 375

5. RA Vanguard

10. Brabham's Cooper-Bristol, 1954 GP

12. Glen Murray Express P3 Alfa

13. Zambucka's Maserati 8CM - could be 1954 GP or 1955 (he had the same number both years)

15. Stuart Special

16. Ex-Haigh Citroen Special - Lou Kingsley's Holden in the background suggests this was when the Citroen was in the Blackburns' ownership

17. Ken Wharton's T41 Cooper-Climax (as driven by Alex Stringer) with Bib Stillwell's 250F behind - 1957 GP

18. Fred Tuck's Mk1 Cooper-Bristol - 1954 GP

20. I tend to agree the Holroyd Ford 10 special before it became the A50 Special

21. Agree on Davison's HWM-Jag, though I don't recall seeing photos of it with that nose before

Re: Front engined single seaters

by bry3500 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:47 am

[quote="Kwaussie"]Post #20 is I think the Holroyd /Ross/ Bunce / A50 Special. This could be a very early photo when it was Ford 10 powered.[/QUOTE

Yep...
Attachments
pictures_skope06_a50special.jpg

Doug Haigh

by bry3500 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:39 am

Citroen Special
Attachments
3clz55m3.jpg

Ardun Special

by bry3500 » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:37 am

Brian Tracey demonstrating the Ardun Special at Epsom at the 1958 pre Ardmore NZIGP meeting.
Attachments
images.jpeg

Re: Front engined single seaters

by Kwaussie » Wed Dec 28, 2011 12:21 am

Post #20 is I think the Holroyd /Ross/ Bunce / A50 Special. This could be a very early photo when it was Ford 10 powered.

Re: Front engined single seaters

by bry3500 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:32 pm

Post #16 Doug Haigh's Citroen Special,

Re: Front engined single seaters

by Oldfart » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:24 pm

stubuchanan wrote: 1954 first-ever NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore Stu


Come on Stu, we are not still denying that the first NZ Grand Prix was at Ohakea are we? :)
But you did say the "first-ever NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore", I guess that could be interpreted differently.

Re: Front engined single seaters

by bry3500 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:07 am

post 17 ( i stand by to be corrected) Stan Jones 250F and Brabhams Cooper

Car 6 in Post #21

by stubuchanan » Tue Dec 27, 2011 9:27 am

Car #6 would be Lex Davison's HWM-Jaguar at the 1954 first-ever NZ Grand Prix at Ardmore (actually described in the programme as the NZ Motor Cup Grand Prix). Note the P.Coutts & Co Ltd Commer van at the right.

Davison won the 1954 Australian GP in it on a distinctly rough road circuit at Southport Qld. Car 5 in the background would be Horace Gould's Cooper-Bristol.

Stu

Re: Front engined single seaters

by rogered » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:27 am

markec wrote:[ATTACH=CONFIG]4996[/ATTACH]


passing resemblance to this grandson

Re: Front engined single seaters

by bry3500 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:55 am

I should have said one is not a front engined.[/QUOTE]
It's a Cooper T41 I think

Re: Front engined single seaters

by markec » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:31 am

Mr McK may be able to answer some of them, These postings are mainly to preserve our history and also for the younger ones to see what was.

Unknown to me

by markec » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:29 am

Single seater 8a.jpg

Unknown to me

by markec » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:27 am

Single seater 13a.jpg

Re: Front engined single seaters

by bry3500 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:21 am

Post 16 is the Gee Cee Ess , post 18 a Cooper Bristol Again ..not sure who tho

Re: Front engined single seaters

by markec » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:20 am

Single seaters 9a.jpg

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