The Roaring Season

It doesn't help when the blurbs that accompany cars up for auction by the likes of Pickles, Bennetts and Bonhams are regularly sheer works of fiction. They appear to assume that the great unwashed (that's us) will be dazzled by the inclusion of the mention of some famous names and events in the spiel and be assuaged. In the world of historic motorcycle racing, you would be staggered to discover that nearly every Suzuki TR750 that comes up is ex-Barry Sheene, every 350 or 450 Ducati is ex-Bruno Spaggiari and many a G50 Matchless is ex-Steve McQueen. What you've mentioned here Terry is indicative of the lax nature of provenance from places that should know better and would have no trouble in authenticating the veracity of their descriptions. Don't wish to appear an anorak or a rivet-counter, but between these appalling displays of guesswork and Wikipedia, before long all our history will be "near enough" to the truth.
Bugger that.

[quote="GD66"]Roger that, cheers mate.

Edit : this is what's thrown me out :

[url]http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/formula/0014.dino.166f2.htm[/url][/quote]

From searching the net you come across so many errors.
Here is one related to this topic. It appears to be "official" Donington Grand Prix Museum site

[url]http://flickeflu.com/set/72157616386876693[/url]

Go down to photo # 15. It is described as Chris Amon's Ferrari 312.
In fact it is a 246. Subtle difference is 312 had 12 cylinders, whilst the 246 had only 6.

Unfortunately one just has to be so cautious not to be "thrown out" by what one reads.

It has been fascinating to discover that Walter Medlin also owned the Ferrari P4/Can Am 350 raced at one time by David McKay’s Scuderia Veloce team.

In the course of searching I came across this truly wonderful site:
[url]http://primotipo.com/[/url]
Then in search type "Ferrari P4". Then call up that article.
A great article on the cars 1967 competitors, its European, Can Am and Australian histories and some truly great photos.

I thoroughly recommend this primotipo.com site. There is an incredible variety of articles on it from all parts of world and all ages. Suggest work through the icons at the top.
Hours of informative reading there.

Terry,
Thanks to you and GD66 for all the interesting information. You could write your own book. I enjoy this thread.


(Ken Hyndman )

[quote="Kwaussie"]Further reading regarding #0858 [url]http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/381798-david-piper-restores-talacrest-p4.html[/url][/quote]

That thread has had an incredible 3088 posts to date, a lot of them dribble. I admit I have only skimmed through, but here is my précis:

Ferrari built 3 P4's for the 1967 Endurance Championship. Regulation changes meant they could not compete in the 1968 Endurance Championship. So Ferrari converted two of them, 0858 & 0860 to run in the Can Am series. This included new lighter bodies and engines enlarged to 4.2L.
Weight was reduced from 792Kg to 700Kg.

They were however no competition for the Bruce and Denny show in Can Am, so Ferrari sold them off after that.

David Piper eventually bought 0858. He obtained all the necessary P4 blueprints from Ferrari.
Sold the car to Walter Medlin who showed it a few times but basically held it in barn until sold by RM Auctions in 2009.

The new owner commissioned David Piper to "restore" it to its original P4 status. That's where the "controversy" arises.

Is it a P4 or a replica, even though the original conversion to 350 Can Am car was done in the Ferrari factory.

The dispute is worth millions of dollars as a P4 is now worth many millions more than the Can Am car.

Bonhams auction...(sob)...

[url]http://dev2.checkoutthelatest.com/remrob&watch=Vd5ITGX_WMQ[/url]

[quote="Terry S"]It is interesting to look at the value of theses cars in their day and ponder how rich a buyer would be now.....

As noted above the Ferrari P4 chassis #0858 owned by Medlin was originally owned by David McKay's Scuderia Veloce.
In his autobiography McKay notes he paid US$30,000 for it in 1969. He would have had to pay another US$34,000 in duty for it if kept in Australia for greater than 12 months. To avoid this he sold it to Aussie Paul Hawkins before the year was up to race in a South African series. What is it worth now?

Isn't hindsight a marvellous thing......[/quote]

Further reading regarding #0858 [url]http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/vintage-thru-365-gtc4-sponsored-vintage-driving-machines/381798-david-piper-restores-talacrest-p4.html[/url]

David Manton's Pat Hoare book has some interesting stories along this line : well worth a look !
[attachment=0]david manton book.jpg[/attachment]

It is interesting to look at the value of theses cars in their day and ponder how rich a buyer would be now.....

As noted above the Ferrari P4 chassis #0858 owned by Medlin was originally owned by David McKay's Scuderia Veloce.
In his autobiography McKay notes he paid US$30,000 for it in 1969. He would have had to pay another US$34,000 in duty for it if kept in Australia for greater than 12 months. To avoid this he sold it to Aussie Paul Hawkins before the year was up to race in a South African series. What is it worth now?

In regard to the two single seat Ferrari 246T chassis #0008 and #0010 that were raced in the 1969 Tasman Series, McKay notes that Chris Amon told him he was authorised "to sell the 2 cars and spares for US$38,000". Again, what a bargain?

Isn't hindsight a marvellous thing......

[quote="GD66"]Good man ! :cool: [/quote]

Lovely, send a copy to Bernie.

Good man ! :cool:

I do not mean to spoil this thread but I get a bit carried away with the sounds of Ferraris.
Put on your headphones and enjoy the sounds of V10 Ferraris of 2001-2005 driving at an empty Monza circuit.

[video=youtube;0mHkfCmoMVs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mHkfCmoMVs[/video]



( Ken Hyndman )

More from Maranello.
[video=youtube;25N0MafmtxU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25N0MafmtxU[/video]



(Ken Hyndman )

I know this is not quite what you were after, but we all need a bit of Maranello magic !

[video=youtube;OmWAR3cwpZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmWAR3cwpZA[/video]


(Thanks to Youtube )
(Ken Hyndman )

No worries, mate, all good. I'm hoping someone may whack up a link on here to a video clip of the little Ferrari, footage of them is at a premium. Oh, the SOUND....

[quote="GD66"]It is not really a mystery, if you go to the Barchetta link above in my post #23 you will see the lineage of the car's ownership after its race days.[/quote]

With the greatest respect, I ignored the Barchhta site after you said in post 23 that it had thrown you out. I merely took your advice.

It is not really a mystery, if you go to the Barchetta link above in my post #23 you will see the lineage of the car's ownership after its race days.

[quote="GD66"]Terry, if you keep poking around you will find it is an F2 Dino 166, with chassis no 014. There are several mentions of it around, including TNF.[/quote]

After much searching I have also reached conclusion that Medlin's car is a F2 Dino with chassis #14. It was used in 1969 by Clay Regazzoni and Tino Brambilla. After that it is a mystery until it turned up with Medlin.

I cannot see anywhere that it has been sold by Medlin.

Looks like the Walter Medlin's Ferrari Dino 166 # 0014 did not have much of a track record to brag about !



( K H )

Roger that, cheers mate.

Edit : this is what's thrown me out :

[url]http://www.barchetta.cc/english/all.ferraris/detail/formula/0014.dino.166f2.htm[/url]