by Kiwiboss » Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:19 pm
RacerT wrote:Man this is a crazy mixture of philosophy's and half truths. The rules are straight forward and simple! Would you venture onto a cricket pitch or a rugby field with no knowledge of the rules - I think not. To take the sporting analogy further, we all agree that we need rules and regulations in sport, so why is classic and historic racing any different? I cannot see that the paperwork that exists today could be any simpler. The suggestion to just invite cars that the promoter likes is a sure way to kill the sport, as favouritism and despotism (and maybe rheumatism!) would cause a distinctly un-level playing field in short order. I know, as Ray mentions, guys just want to race their cars, but they do have a responsibility to know what they are racing and what the rules are.
And offcourse what amazes me RacerT is that these guys build their “Hotrods” or “SportSedans” without even opening the rule book, but in good faith to race at “Club” level meetings then over time they change their minds and wish to race at “Historic and Classic” events because this looks like more fun and hey, one can bring a “gun to a knife fight” but get peeved when they’re turned away or put in an open type “All-Comer” groups where others have an even greater performance advantage!! I find the same old excuse is used “its cheaper to do this, do that” to modify ones race car outside the rules, well if one doesn’t like the cost he should reconsider his chosen sport!!
True historic or classic class’s are based around a rule formula from the past that is pretty much used world-wide even though here in NZ we have our own idea of this but to me the MSNZ T&C regulations is what we have and works
if you have "Historic Thinking” and as mentioned before by me it’s just never been enforced like the Aussie’s do which is a shame. Whether its cricket, rugbee, soccer they all have rules to work too and isn’t that how democratic nations are run? Now Ray runs his ERC series with an “iron fist” as “invited only” series and has his followers, cool!! But has no rules and penalises faster cars on lap time, this is NOT classic racing although some of the cars in his group probably do conform to T&C but to me this its NOT democratic and harks a bit of the “3rd Reich” here. On the other hand(and I use HMC as im involved here) we are not an invited race group, our rules are based on historic and classic T&C and FIA Group 5 saloon regulations and allow “ANYONE” to race as long as there vehicle meets the rules, that is democracy and how classic and historic racing should be. Now you can shoot me down with your keyboard Ray about all the pros and cons, bla,bla,bla but I still say to you that I do appreciate your ERC series in the fact that gives all these “non-built to rules” historic and classic cars a place to run and as NZ has plenty you attract big grids, fantastic and you do a great job!! but its still not proper historic racing, sorry!! Dale M
[quote="RacerT"]Man this is a crazy mixture of philosophy's and half truths. The rules are straight forward and simple! Would you venture onto a cricket pitch or a rugby field with no knowledge of the rules - I think not. To take the sporting analogy further, we all agree that we need rules and regulations in sport, so why is classic and historic racing any different? I cannot see that the paperwork that exists today could be any simpler. The suggestion to just invite cars that the promoter likes is a sure way to kill the sport, as favouritism and despotism (and maybe rheumatism!) would cause a distinctly un-level playing field in short order. I know, as Ray mentions, guys just want to race their cars, but they do have a responsibility to know what they are racing and what the rules are.[/quote]
And offcourse what amazes me RacerT is that these guys build their “Hotrods” or “SportSedans” without even opening the rule book, but in good faith to race at “Club” level meetings then over time they change their minds and wish to race at “Historic and Classic” events because this looks like more fun and hey, one can bring a “gun to a knife fight” but get peeved when they’re turned away or put in an open type “All-Comer” groups where others have an even greater performance advantage!! I find the same old excuse is used “its cheaper to do this, do that” to modify ones race car outside the rules, well if one doesn’t like the cost he should reconsider his chosen sport!!
True historic or classic class’s are based around a rule formula from the past that is pretty much used world-wide even though here in NZ we have our own idea of this but to me the MSNZ T&C regulations is what we have and works [u]if you have [/u][b]"Historic Thinking”[/b] and as mentioned before by me it’s just never been enforced like the Aussie’s do which is a shame. Whether its cricket, rugbee, soccer they all have rules to work too and isn’t that how democratic nations are run? Now Ray runs his ERC series with an “iron fist” as “invited only” series and has his followers, cool!! But has no rules and penalises faster cars on lap time, this is NOT classic racing although some of the cars in his group probably do conform to T&C but to me this its NOT democratic and harks a bit of the “3rd Reich” here. On the other hand(and I use HMC as im involved here) we are not an invited race group, our rules are based on historic and classic T&C and FIA Group 5 saloon regulations and allow “ANYONE” to race as long as there vehicle meets the rules, that is democracy and how classic and historic racing should be. Now you can shoot me down with your keyboard Ray about all the pros and cons, bla,bla,bla but I still say to you that I do appreciate your ERC series in the fact that gives all these “non-built to rules” historic and classic cars a place to run and as NZ has plenty you attract big grids, fantastic and you do a great job!! but its still not proper historic racing, sorry!! Dale M