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Expand view Topic review: Jims Jaguar Thread

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by markson » Tue Dec 04, 2012 11:38 pm

Hi Gerald My Son did buy the Jag (to only put in his garage) ,as at present he does not drive, but I am sure that he will not be short of friends to take him out at weekends.The difference between a standard XJS and a Le Man's, are the head lights, the interior the wheels and a few other little items, but I don't think anything in the way of performance,he did pay a lot of money for it ,check out trade me listing 517 300 211 Graham. Pocock Markson

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jim short » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:40 pm

Oldfart wrote:I know I should not react, however here I go, putting my head in the lions mouth again!
Jim, you yet again hijacked a thread for your own reasons, ie the Taupo thread, then complained because you apparently were not allowed to run the Ferrari at a VCC event.
I have no idea of what happened at that time, but it had nothing whatever to do with Taupo.A long time back I created this thread for you, in the forlorn hope that you might put your thoughts here rather than hijacking damned nearly every thread that was going, and it worked for a while.
You have a lot to offer, but it seems that you need to realise that yours is not the only opinion in town. In my opinion (for what it's worth) no-one is ever totally right, nor totally wrong.
Going back to the "Ferrari". VCC have robust rules relating to replicas, period specials etc. The primary one is that the car is dated by the newest of the engine or chassis, for circuit racing this must be pre Dec 31 1960.This is in agreement with Motorsport, and they are the intractable orgainisation relating to date. The tyres should be of period size, tread style etc. In the Mainland the tyre thing has become a bit more open, which not everyone agrees with.
So for the car which was created (incidentally by friends of mine too,Peter, Ferris etc) the question for vintage movement would be, is this an accurate copy of the car it is portrayed to be? I undetrstand that photos, drawings etc of both the original, and the replica/copy/tribute may be needed. Onus of proof on the owner. 2nd, what year is the engine, again onus...Then a Vehicle Identity Card can be formalised, just like a COD.
Personally I would expect the brakes, transmission etc to be just like the original, and the body of the same material, but that's not totally in the rules as I read them. Now before you leap into abuse I have spoken with you face to face on a number of occasions expressing delight with the car and what was done. I do not know the circumstances of touur attempt to enter, but was any of the background work done? ie COD or VIC, what was it dated as? If it did not have one of those you would be dead in the water, and with a pre 1960 dating. If, for example a 1965 Alfa motor (and I did not say that it was) is used it's a 1965. Chelsea is a pre 1960 event.
The yeehas were because Steve had stated that anything not relating to the thread would be removed, you started that variation and I reacted. Calling mental state into question is a very dodgy place to go, someone might react to that. My late father often said "He who yells first has lost the argument". Don't yell in writing.


Forgive me I started to read your tale but lost interest after 3 lines this car ran at many events never prevented once,as I stated quite clearly Chelsey was one mans problem ,I dont like the way certan folk are twisting things so no more on this subject.and a laugh a day is good for you so just lighten up you know who yes is you

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by AMCO72 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:27 pm

Further.......Jim it was you bought the name of Tim into the argument to get clout for the naming of your 'special'. I was mearly carrying on the quote. Whether or not he believed in Jesus is irrelevant to the subject.
I own a four cylinder car, and it doesnt sound like a Model A when it is on the track. Must be because it is a quality English product......or as you would have it....pom!!!!!!

You say you never called your 'Ferrari' a replica. Well you went to extrordinary lengths to get it as near as possible to the real thing. Most 'Specials' are contraptions folk dream up to perform a certain task......hill climbs, trials, off road, and only bear a tiny resemblence to any real machine, but they do the business.

And just remember when you are blazing away........ 'dont waste ammunition'......

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by AMCO72 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:18 pm

Oldfart, you are allowed to react on THIS thread because it is Jims 'Jaguar Thread'. So we can argue away to our hearts content without upsetting other more serious sites, and folk can choose to read or not.
As beowulf said, there is a 'percieved insult' here that Jim cannot, or will not get over. I'm sure he has convinced himself that the 'Ferrari' is a real one straight from the factory. Quoting famous names from the past of NZ motor racing does not make it any more real.
As I said in post 120, mention of these cars is inclined to get an angry response, and I dont know why. That is why I extended the hand of friendship to the man so he could come on here and CALMLY and SENSIBLY tell us about them. Instead I get my hand bitten off.
Well pretty soon it will be, in Trucker speak........thats a big tenfour!!!!!!!
Over and out.

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jim short » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:09 pm

AMCO72 wrote:Jim, why is it, when mention of your cars is made, do you come back with 'all guns blazing'.

I know that you did not build the chassis of the 'Ferrari'. What I meant was, why didnt the original builder pick a Maserati to 'copy' rather than a Ferrari?
I frankly dont care if the Lord Jesus Christ helped you to make the damn thing.......it is still a replica. And what a lot of tosh that Mr Tim Bailey, Ferrari importer 'ALLOWED' it to be called a Ferrari. Did you ask Enzo if it would be alright? Honestly I have never heard so much rubbish in all my life.
I dont know who these couple of unheard of dreamers are, or the 'two with their ye ha post', but apparently I belong in that camp as well.
Incidentally, I seem to remember you getting VERY excited over an Austin 7 at the last Festival.

Over and out............


Amco to start my name is Jim not Jum,no you are not one of those two,if you noticed after Steve said he will delete further post both old fart and his mate forget his name beadog or something ,put up a Ye Ha or words to that effect,somthing a child would do on getting the biggest lollie,I am sorry I didnt explain Enzo was not available any more and Tim who {RIP] was a fine man,and being brought up to believe in Jesus, I do not like you bringing him into your ramblings to get some clout.As to the Maserati against Ferrari the man who started the car was a Ferrari lover and to this I had no control,as to sound all 4 cyld. cars sound that way this is caused by the way the pistons and valves work.A replica it was not and never did I call it such always a Ferrari Special.As to guns blazing,well an old uncle told me years ago never wear a gun unless you plan to use it ,so its hard not to have blaze when needed,I hope this explanation is of some help, but thanking you for your concern Regards Jim Short {my real name and not afraid to use it}

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jim short » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:10 pm

faminz wrote:Wish my bugeye looked like that too!!!!!!!


faminz strange you mention MG midgets was and still thinking of getting one in spite of been told bad in so many departments they are,I wont mention his name ,but he kicks hell out of me on this site for even thinking about owning one

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by Oldfart » Tue Dec 04, 2012 7:06 pm

I know I should not react, however here I go, putting my head in the lions mouth again!
Jim, you yet again hijacked a thread for your own reasons, ie the Taupo thread, then complained because you apparently were not allowed to run the Ferrari at a VCC event.
I have no idea of what happened at that time, but it had nothing whatever to do with Taupo.A long time back I created this thread for you, in the forlorn hope that you might put your thoughts here rather than hijacking damned nearly every thread that was going, and it worked for a while.
You have a lot to offer, but it seems that you need to realise that yours is not the only opinion in town. In my opinion (for what it's worth) no-one is ever totally right, nor totally wrong.
Going back to the "Ferrari". VCC have robust rules relating to replicas, period specials etc. The primary one is that the car is dated by the newest of the engine or chassis, for circuit racing this must be pre Dec 31 1960.This is in agreement with Motorsport, and they are the intractable orgainisation relating to date. The tyres should be of period size, tread style etc. In the Mainland the tyre thing has become a bit more open, which not everyone agrees with.
So for the car which was created (incidentally by friends of mine too,Peter, Ferris etc) the question for vintage movement would be, is this an accurate copy of the car it is portrayed to be? I undetrstand that photos, drawings etc of both the original, and the replica/copy/tribute may be needed. Onus of proof on the owner. 2nd, what year is the engine, again onus...Then a Vehicle Identity Card can be formalised, just like a COD.
Personally I would expect the brakes, transmission etc to be just like the original, and the body of the same material, but that's not totally in the rules as I read them. Now before you leap into abuse I have spoken with you face to face on a number of occasions expressing delight with the car and what was done. I do not know the circumstances of touur attempt to enter, but was any of the background work done? ie COD or VIC, what was it dated as? If it did not have one of those you would be dead in the water, and with a pre 1960 dating. If, for example a 1965 Alfa motor (and I did not say that it was) is used it's a 1965. Chelsea is a pre 1960 event.
The yeehas were because Steve had stated that anything not relating to the thread would be removed, you started that variation and I reacted. Calling mental state into question is a very dodgy place to go, someone might react to that. My late father often said "He who yells first has lost the argument". Don't yell in writing.

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by AMCO72 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:34 pm

I sincerely hope he is not just going to 'put it in his garage', but that it will be exercised the way a Jaguar should be.
Incidentally, you say it is a LeMans spec car........what is different from the regular XJS.
That is one sharp looking machine, and a few years ago could be picked up for very little money. I think that situation may have changed. The shape was severely critisized when new, and then of course the fuel crisis didnt do it any good, but a wonderfully smooth and effortless road burner.

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by markson » Tue Dec 04, 2012 6:12 pm

100_3865.jpg

I just thought I would put up this photo, on the JAG thread, of my son's very nice XJS LE_MAN'
s, number 210 of 280 built, that he has just brought, to put in his garage. Graham Pocock !!Markson

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by AMCO72 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:06 pm

Jim, why is it, when mention of your cars is made, do you come back with 'all guns blazing'.

I know that you did not build the chassis of the 'Ferrari'. What I meant was, why didnt the original builder pick a Maserati to 'copy' rather than a Ferrari?
I frankly dont care if the Lord Jesus Christ helped you to make the damn thing.......it is still a replica. And what a lot of tosh that Mr Tim Bailey, Ferrari importer 'ALLOWED' it to be called a Ferrari. Did you ask Enzo if it would be alright? Honestly I have never heard so much rubbish in all my life.
I dont know who these couple of unheard of dreamers are, or the 'two with their ye ha post', but apparently I belong in that camp as well.
Incidentally, I seem to remember you getting VERY excited over an Austin 7 at the last Festival.

Over and out............

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jim short » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:53 am

faminz wrote:Wish my bugeye looked like that too!!!!!!!


Amco what the hell are you smoking???never go back on my word? I am pleased you did you just need you distributor advanced a little. THE fERRARI BODY AND CHASSIS WAS BUILT not by me so how the hell could I make it into a 250f.Doug Nye{pom}checks cars out for Bonhams,he thought it was the Shuter {Wigram} car,this was when it was up for sale as an original,this tells as to how good it was ,and to have these old codgers ask stupid questons!!!!As Dave says how the hell can you get excited by a Austin 7??I must add to the list to those that helped me with the making of the Ferrari,Tim Bailley Ferrari importer and owner of Continental cars ,on a Ferrari leterhead allowed it to be called a Ferrari!!! John Riley gave me the steering wheel out of the Whitehead clark car{Super Squalo}and Roly Levis who travelled several times from Tauranga to Tokoroa to help with the front suspension,when you look at all those who helped and a couple of unheard of dreamers who question the car what sort of reaction do you expect??As to the SS strange in 1991 at Levels Timaru along side a Alfa TZ2 the best two cars were the Alfa and the SS heading off a 250f ect 17 cars from the States plus Aussie Hong Kong, Plus the reaction of thos two with their YE Ha ect post shows how their mental state is in question

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by faminz » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:34 am

GeebeeNZ wrote:[ATTACH=CONFIG]9253[/ATTACH]

Jim I dont know if you have any time for MG Midgets/Healey Sprites but you have to be impressed by this one. If only the engine bay in mine looked like that.
Graeme


Wish my bugeye looked like that too!!!!!!!

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by AMCO72 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:01 am

At the risk of incuring the wrath of other members of TRS, I am bringing up this subject of Jums cars on his own thread, started by Oldfart, so Jum could indulge himself in nostalgia. So no need to shoot Jum down as you, the potential reader can look, or not as the case may be.

The subject of the Ferrari replica was raised on another thread and some questions were asked concerning its build date.
Now I know that Jum is inordinately proud of this car, even though it sounded like a Model A Ford when competing...... true, and I have to ask myself ,why would you want to replicate a Ferrari 500, with a 4 cylinder engine, when you could have, for instance, done a very nice job with a 250F. There is about the same amount of work in each car, and you would end up, in my opinion with a much better looking, and certainly sounding car. The Alfa engine in the Ferrari just didnt cut the mustard for sound, or perhaps when I heard it Jum wasnt giving it enough welly!!!

Of all the race cars around at the time, mid fifties, the 500 was a pretty basic machine. I'm not sure how successful it was, but I think someone won a World Championship in one, maybe Farina, probably because it was so reliable, and actually finished races. It was hardly a thing of beauty ,cocked up at the back end as it was, compared to a 250F.

Jum put his heart and soul into that machine, only to have it scorned by the establishment at the time, especially in the North Island. Think it might be different today, but for whatever reason, Jum spat the dummy and sold the car to the USA, where it sems to have been welcomed. Think he may have regreted that decision, but then again we have all done this......selling cars we shouldnt.

The other machine that Jum is passionate about is of course the SS, not Jaguar, but Short Spyder. I have told Jum repeatedly that it will only look good when he converts to wire-wheels, but he is not convinced. He is concerened that they will fly to pieces when he puts it on the track, but that is not going to happen, is it Jum? A lot of things have got to happen before wire-wheels, like medicals for race-licences etc, so for a start you had better cut-out the lamb shanks and pino gris for tea, and go for lettuce and cucumbers!!!!

So there you go Jum, due to my excessive kindness, and in the way of an apology for ripping shit out of you yesterday for ballsing up the HRSCC thread, here is your chance to have your say, and put us all straight on these two cars.

And by the way, your sense of humour isnt to everyones cup of tea, subtle though it is. I sure you have to have had a sharply honed sense of humour to survive in Waiuku, as a valuable member of the 1st fifteen, and then run a business in Tokoroa dealing with all sorts of dodgy characters. You have come through, perhaps not with flying colours, but at least with your head held up. So dont undo all the good by getting all stoppy about your projects......move on and enjoy life for what it is now, with lots of memories both good and not so good.

Ok thats my lecture for the week. Why did I come back to TRS [dont answer that] Havent slept a wink since!!!

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jim short » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:44 pm

Another storey about Colin McGregor he was a very astute man ,had the first supermarket in Auckland,owned a swag of cars over the yrs. One was a 3.8 E Type done very little miles,still had chalk marks under the car from the assembly line, he and his wife went up north for a drive and at a set of lights some hoons revesed into the nose and took of laughing.He raced back with Laurie Powell Tom Clark ect,this day at Levin all set to return home when Tom who had the Mk 7 suggested they stop at the Cobb in Taupo for a meal and he would give Colin a start as nothing was as fast as the Jag. Not shure what Colin was driving but it was foot down the whole way,just as Colin and crew got in the door the Mk7 pulled up outside ,Colin said to his crew quick sit at this table that had not been cleared and when Tom came bursting through the door Colin stood up and remarked what a good meal it was and they must be off!!!

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by David McKinney » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:52 am

He raced the Jag for two seasons

I also remember other names he painted on his cars - "Frère Diable" was one, possibly on the Normac

He used to take the Evening Post from Wellington to Otaki for delivery every day. I think he used one of his Zephyrs for that purpose at one time, and certainly a V8 Ranchwagon (which was also pressed into occasional competition use)

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jim short » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:11 am

I am not shure ,after 63 the first Puke GP they raced at Levin with Kerry Grant and Bruce ,Brian Innis also plus Ernnie in his Zepher sadly I never saw them down south but buy all accounts it was all on, I must addmit I have to think awhile .I think Alister {some slack journos called him Athol!1 much to his disgust}but to confuse use there was a A McLoud? in a Jag at the same time.he Alister bought the car that Simon Taylor raced before he bought the D Type of Hislop ,he had on the drivers door" Mr Quickly" painted on it .He also raced a Cooper 500 a Mk 1 Zepher a taxi with the taxi signe on thr roof. a Normack Sp made in Hawkes Bay plus the Baggnal Sp. Ray Archibald was also running at that stage and I remember Alister describing a demon pass on Ray down the inside and not been able to stop ,the look Ray gave him as they both shot over the grass was not one to forget. He has in his garage below the house is his homemade coffin waiting for him, lined with the curtins from his lounge!! I pity the nurses loking after him ,a great bloke

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by hilstwist » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:02 am

Yes and it was those two racing at Levin which made me a huge "saloon car'' fan. Did he only race that Jag for one season and then pack it in?

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jim short » Sat Oct 27, 2012 1:03 am

The man who beat Bruce McLaren back in the sixteys in his 3.8 Mk 2 Jaguar, Alister McBeath in one of the best races ,with the Cooper Mini outbraking and cornering the big Jaguar only to loose out on the long straight fell down some steps and broke his hip and arm .now85yrs old,but very much alive

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jamie » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:52 am

Afternoon John just proof read my last coment (only) left out with inserted in the right place it makes sence SORRY abought that Jamie

Re: Jims Jaguar Thread

by jim short » Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:12 am

John you got me remembering some of the reaction my car got,.My wife worked as a travel agent for Go International in the city this night I parked infront of their front door and waited {not in the car}a friend{at that stage} arrived to pick up his wife also a travel agent, we standing talking when he noticed the car Whow look at this he walked around then spotted the name Short spyder Made in NZ, the only part made in NZ registered in his little brain,, he made out to kick it bloody made in NZ then realized it was mine!! .Then I drove down to a meeting at Bay Park and parked it where I could keep an eye on it from the hill stand on the grass then the folk sitting beside us noticed and of he went all excited,he came back disgusted hell its made in NZ!!!he never clicked it was mine and so it goes. On the other side ,in 81 I was invited to run my E Type at the Country Gents at Wigram ,now these guys ran a great meeting no manz here the range of cars some over from Aussie the Dalray a 50s jag SP. Sam Johnsons Ferrari dino ect. the air force had a large tent that had a jazz band and full range of hot meals,was able to meet a lot of new folk the one I wish to meet was Ray Archibald but no show he was so tall and surronded by lesser men I,met and chatted to Ian his brother.1983 Ardmore reunion Ray came up with his 3.8 jag and dusted us all off but in one race my fan belt broke on the last lap and helped me to get fastest lap over him not that it ment much,but after the race he gave me a fan belt along with Rod Coppings Colin McGregor and one other all different sizes ??? any how Ray spent lots of time during the meeting chatting ,if you come to CC you must visit and so on that was 83 now to 93 back at Wigram never seen Ray since 83, me and my son was walking looking at the public cars in the car park like yrs ago car folk were proud to take them out all classics mainly ,when this tall chap with an even taller younger man with a youngster in his arms crossed in front of us .Excuse me I said arnt you Ray Archibald?? do you remember me?? not shure ,,remember the primrose jag??/ Yes tell about your Short Spyder!! true really is true sadly him and Ian are gone but a memorie of him I will never forget at Puke 2nd lap he passed up the back straight Dennis Marwood me then Angus Hyslop and in the hairpin the three of us were side by side and his jag so crossed up imposible to save I was starting to smile I think {cant really be shure} when all of a suden the three of us side by side took of up the short straight and he was gone .years later Earnie Spraque told me Ray used change his diff ratio to suite!!!

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