Old Race Tracks

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Expand view Topic review: Old Race Tracks

Re: Old Race Tracks

by jellywrestler » Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:54 am

Plenty of Old Race Tracks in this new NZ book on Road Racing Circuits, 160 of them actually. http://www.theroaringseason.com/showthr ... the-market

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:39 am

When one sees how little crowd control there was at early Vanderbilt races, it is surprising there were not more incidents like the one that happened at Santa Monica in November 1916 that hastened the end of road racing at this site.

Vanderbilt road racing and lack of crowd control, 1904
[video]https://www.loc.gov/item/00564552[/video]


This peaceful present day photo of the place in Santa Monica where in 1916 a Marmon racer driven by Lewis Jackson, had steering failure on this slight curve and jumped the curb across about where that white vehicle is parked.
Although there were 4 fatalities and others injured and it happened on the 13th lap, the race carried on and finished as scheduled on the 48th lap !

Santa Monica at San Vincente Blvd and 7th Ave.JPG


A graphic of when things go horribly wrong.

2021-07-25_003096.jpg





(Ken H)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by Ray Bell » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:40 pm

While Benz and Mercedes were close at that time, they weren't to merge until 1926.

Re: Old Race Tracks

by Oldfart » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:47 pm

I purchased the Klemantski book on Blitzen Benzes, interesting how much muddied "history" there is. I didn't realize there was more than one. Muddied like NZ history is becoming :)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Fri Jul 23, 2021 7:09 am

Another fast Mercedes at that time was known as the "Blitzen Benz" driven in 1911 by Bob Burman who sadly lost his life at the at the 1916 Corona race as told in the Post # 395.
A good description of the car and it's history can be found in this article.

http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&title=The-BlitzenBenz&A=2745


Blitzen Benz.jpg




(Ken H...)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:21 am

More photo identification.
"Two Cars and Crowd."
Is actually Harry Grant in his Isotta # 1 waiting to start alongside the # 2 Mercer of Spencer Wishart before the 1914 event.

1914 at the start. # 1 & # 2.jpg


The number 12 Mercedes was a two year old car in 1914 but with the skillful driving of Ralph DePalma made it a winner here at Santa Monica and a year later the same car and driver won the 1915 Indianapolis 500.
# 12   Mercedes.jpg


# 12 Mercedes. Feb. 1914.jpg



It was surprising to find that a Mercedes powered Mercedes would not win a Grand Prix event in the US for 100 years when Lewis Hamilton won the 2014 US Grand Prix at Austin, Texas.




( Ken H)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Wed Jul 14, 2021 7:34 am

1914 February 26th.
As seen in my earlier post. the LHD Mason # 10 of William Carlson was still leading the RHD Mercedes #12 of Ralph DePalma further around the course.
# 10 ahead of # 12.jpg


But at the end the Mercedes had come through to win easily as shown in this scene from a Mercedes brochure.
" Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday "

1914. The wining Mercedes. # 12.jpg


For the first time on TRS. A short clip of Charlie Chaplin at the 1914 Santa Monica races.

[video=youtube;tn83OIxaF5s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn83OIxaF5s&t=4s[/video]

Some slapping shown that would not be tolerated in any filming today !


(Ken H..)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:17 am

February 26 1914. Vanderbilt Cup Race. Santa Monica.

Starting in front of the large crowd.
Gil Anderson in his Stutz # 3 ( This was the first Stutz ever built )
in front of Fiat # 9 driven by Frank Verbeck.

1914 Two cars and crowd..jpg






( Ken H ..)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:04 am

Thanks Roger,
Motoring and racing history is fun and I enjoy plunking away at it even it is regarding a location / event far from Aotearoa.

The early Santa Monica races were photographed by Bartlett, Adelbert, 1887-1966 (photographer)
The copyright holder of these items has granted permission to make them publicly available on the web.

This next photo was titled; "Is this the Start or the Finish ?"

This a scene from the grandstand by the Start / Finish line on October 14, 1911.
It shows the first event with Bert Dingley being flagged away at 8.30 am in his Pope-Hartford # 2.
The cars were set off in 30 second intervals for as you can see due to the smoke and dust etc. !
The next car is the # 5 National driven by Charles Merz.

Startline action..jpg


Note the large crowd in the stands and also notice how well the women that were present, were dressed.
The Los Angeles Times reported on the 1911 event;
" The crowds stretched around the entire eight mile course and down the sides of Ocean Front Boulevard as far as the eye could see."



(Ken H..)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by Roger Dowding » Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:17 am

" Ken H..to be continued " We hope so,
what a good find..
my latest picture is much newer, but still old, have a look at the Northern Sports Car Club thread.

Cheers Ken H.

Roger

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Sun Jul 11, 2021 7:18 am

I found this collection of the early Santa Monica races at a library which I contacted and they were happy to have them put on TRS but they would be grateful if I could identify the photos a little better than "Two Cars in Motion" or "Two cars and Crowd " etc..
So I will give it a go. They are not in order by year.

First the two cars in motion is a photo taken at the February 1914 event.
William Carlson and his mechanic are anxiously looking back from their Mason # 10 as they round the Deadman's Corner ahead of the fast approaching Mercedes # 12 of eventual race winner, Ralph De Palma.

Two cars in motion.jpg




I also found this clipping of how important these races were to the growth and establishment of Santa Monica back in the early 1900s.

" The Santa Monica Road Races were held 1909-1919. They were instrumental in keeping Santa Monica from being annexed into Los Angeles.

Put on by the city, auto dealers, and real estate developers, they were used as a promotion to bring people to Santa Monica from across the country. The course (which can be run today) ran from Ocean & Montana to Wilshire Boulevard, uphill to San Vicente and back to Ocean. Barney Oldfield, Ralph DePalma, Eddie Pullen, and Terrible Teddy Tetzlaff competed in what were the biggest race meets in the country at that time."




(Ken H..to be continued )

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Sat Jul 03, 2021 5:02 am

I found this article regarding steering wheels on the right and then the left.
LHD in the USA.JPG



(Ken H )

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:05 am

In the 1909 Santa Monica Light Car Race there was a Buick # 9, entered by the Howard Auto Company.
This was one of the first races for Charles Howard. Early on Charles Howard bet on the future of the automobile, buying a ticket to Detroit. There he finagled a meeting with Will Durant, the owner of Buick Automobiles and future founder of General Motors.[ATTACH=CONFIG]69914[/ATTACH]
Durant sent him back home to establish dealerships and soon Howard, at age 28, was in charge of the Buick franchise for San Francisco. Howard sold 85 cars in just one year, at the astronomical price of $1,000 each. In 1909, Durant showed his gratitude by giving him control over all distributorships in the western United States. Almost 20 years later he bought a cheap racehorse as he saw it had potential.
You can see that story in the movie "Seabiscuit."

1909 Buick-01.jpg



1909 Buick-13 - Copy.jpg



1909 Buick-12.jpg





p.s. Why were most US built cars RHD at this time in 1909 ?







(Ken H)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by Kevin Hirst » Wed Jun 30, 2021 8:00 pm

Ray Bell wrote:Many car makers benefited from the war years...

Their manufacturing facilities were going full-time making munitions, aircraft parts and the like. Packard built lots of Rolls-Royce Merlin engines, something which is very well known of course. I was reading recently that the difference in plan-reading between the US and the UK meant they had to re-draw the plans before building the engines. And that they were more consistent in their manufacturing standards.

Willys, of course, built the Jeeps. Ford built plenty of them too. Willys was the original designer and builder, they didn't see out the fifties. Nor did Studebaker, who supplied trucks for armies in large numbers.

Back in WW1 people like Hispano-Suiza were famous for their aircraft engines, as were Rolls-Royce. It's hard to see a car maker who got defence-oriented contracts in those years going under. Unless, of course, they changed course after the war because of what they'd learned, or the under-quoted.

An interesting subject to ponder...


I was always of the understanding that Bantam was the original builder / designer of the jeep but could not build enough of them to supply the military

Re: Old Race Tracks

by Roger Dowding » Wed Jun 30, 2021 7:57 am

Trevor Sheffield wrote:"The story is, as you say, Packard built a better - as in more reliable - version of the Rolls Royce Merlin."

Possibly, but notably without bombs falling around them and not needing housewives and daughters on the assembly line. The fact is that they could not come up with a near equivalent design. Refer Mustang.


Well said Trevor,
Recently read a couple of book about - " Home " - England / Britain, during WW2 and yes, a very tough life with severe rationing while the Americans had a war that apart from Pearl Harbour, their lifestyle just kept going.

Good to read a comment from you.

Cheers
Roger

Re: Old Race Tracks

by Trevor Sheffield » Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:31 am

"The story is, as you say, Packard built a better - as in more reliable - version of the Rolls Royce Merlin."

Possibly, but notably without bombs falling around them and not needing housewives and daughters on the assembly line. The fact is that they could not come up with a near equivalent design. Refer Mustang.

Packard - Rolls Royce a story, within a story.

by Roger Dowding » Wed Jun 30, 2021 5:42 am

Ray Bell,

: " Packard built lots of Rolls-Royce Merlin engines, something which is very well known of course. I was reading recently that the difference in plan-reading between the US and the UK meant they had to re-draw the plans before building the engines. And that they were more consistent in their manufacturing standards. "

You must have been reading what I have just read or something similar
- the latest issue of " New Zealand Classic Driver " has an article by Allan Dick about the" Packard Museum "
- actually a collection of Packards, a lot of English Cars and Farming Machines.
I thought the collection had gone as the owner whom I knew back in the 1980's had passed away.
Turns out that indeed Graham Craw passed away in 2007,however his son Fenton Craw who I also knew is the current Owner /Custodian..

I digress, sorry - old timers issue ....

The story is, as you say, Packard built a better - as in more reliable - version of the Rolls Royce Merlin.

To you and Ken H - keep this stuff coming.

Re: Old Race Tracks

by Ray Bell » Wed Jun 30, 2021 12:18 am

Many car makers benefited from the war years...

Their manufacturing facilities were going full-time making munitions, aircraft parts and the like. Packard built lots of Rolls-Royce Merlin engines, something which is very well known of course. I was reading recently that the difference in plan-reading between the US and the UK meant they had to re-draw the plans before building the engines. And that they were more consistent in their manufacturing standards.

Willys, of course, built the Jeeps. Ford built plenty of them too. Willys was the original designer and builder, they didn't see out the fifties. Nor did Studebaker, who supplied trucks for armies in large numbers.

Back in WW1 people like Hispano-Suiza were famous for their aircraft engines, as were Rolls-Royce. It's hard to see a car maker who got defence-oriented contracts in those years going under. Unless, of course, they changed course after the war because of what they'd learned, or the under-quoted.

An interesting subject to ponder...

Re: Old Race Tracks

by khyndart in CA » Tue Jun 29, 2021 7:01 am

I am amazed at how many automobile manufacturers were in the USA at the early part of the 20th century and were mostly gone within 25 years.
.
The Lozier automobile was a prime example.

" Loziers were top line luxury cars and for a time were the most expensive cars produced in the United States. The 1910 model line featured cars priced between US$4,600 and US$7,750. The same year, a Cadillac could be had for about US$1,600 and a Packard US$3,200. A pre-assembly line Ford Model T of the same year retailed at approximately US$850 (after installing assembly line production a few years later, new Model Ts sold for as little as US$240). The average annual salary in America that year was approximately US$750.

Lozier tried to expand into the mid priced car market and in 1914 offered a four-cylinder car priced at US$2,000. It faced competition from the US$2000 Enger 40,[6] the cheaper FAL at US$1750,[6] the US$1600 Oakland 40,[7] The Chalmers Super Six at US$3200, Cole Four at US$1925,[8] and Western's US$500 Gale Model A roadster,[9] to name just a few. The new four was not a sales success and company finances continued to falter. After a failed attempt to merge with Ford Motor Company, the company declared bankruptcy in 1915. (Wikipedia)

Due to WW1 and the Depression years things did not go as planned for many.

This site covers those defunct automobile manufacturers of the United States.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_automobile_manufacturers_of_the_United_States#L





(Ken H..)

Re: Old Race Tracks

by Roger Dowding » Tue Jun 29, 2021 4:59 am

" changed my post " Yep done that a few times too !! As you know ..

Cheers Ken H,

Roger

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